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Re: Smaller C

From James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com>
Newsgroups alt.os.development
Subject Re: Smaller C
Date 2016-01-16 16:31 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <n7dr44$j6c$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <op.x4zj4l2myfako5@localhost> <mth4jo$bja$1@dont-email.me> <op.x5k6wvvfyfako5@localhost> <mu79ae$bft$1@dont-email.me> <op.x5mk47nzyfako5@localhost>

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On 27/09/2015 15:28, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 19:23:45 -0400, James Harris
> <james.harris.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 26/09/2015 21:23, Rod Pemberton wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 09:48:26 -0400, James Harris
>>> <james.harris.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> In the previous case where we discussed H&S, i.e. in connection with
>>>> the
>>>> switch statement, I found an online copy of their book and it seemed to
>>>> me that they had come across what they thought of were two different
>>>> forms (and were surprised at what they had found) so listed them
>>>> without
>>>> realising how C worked.
>>>
>>> It seems as if you still don't accept it.
>>>
>>> Do you agree that Duff's device both exists and works?
>>>
>>> If so, then you must accept that H&S are correct here.
>>
>> [answer to question avoided]
>
> I already know what your position is from past threads.  I'll continue as
> if you had directly stated you oppose their understanding or perspective,
> for which I don't believe I'm putting any words into your mouth or
> misstating your perspective.

[Snipped various impressive credentials]

> So, let me get this straight, you, James Harris of ... somewhere in the
> U.K.,
> have concluded that three PHDs in C.S., all of whon specialize in
> programming
> language design, who were involved in standardization of ANSI C, C++, and
> Common Lisp, whose book was reviewed by about 3 dozen other people,
> including
> PHDs from other universities, and other ANSI X3J11 contributors and
> renowned
> experts in C like P.J. Plauger, Henry Spencer, and Larry Rosler, have
> concluded
> that _they_ made a mistake? ...  Although possible, that's highly
> improbable.

In reply to that:

1. I have never been a fan of asserting that because people have 
impressive qualifications that they are right. That is dangerous and 
borders on religious credulity. Issues of science can be discussed as 
issues using reasoning. It is unwise to defer to human 'higher powers' 
on things that we can out logically for ourselves.

2. Even the best among us makes mistakes. Even if H&S are wonderful and 
the best authors around they could also easily also err in one tiny detail.

3. Published and reviewed books can have mistakes - they can even be 
riddled with mistakes. IIRC there was a popular but infamous book by one 
of the Schilds which dissected the standard but was still riddled with 
mistakes due to a complete lack of understanding of C.

4. The reviewers could have seen the authors' misunderstanding and let 
it go if the book is aimed at beginners. The basic H&S message is not 
actually wrong, just misleading, and the fact that they came across it 
as they did shows their lack of understanding of one tiny part of C.

> I hope this call to authority as expressed here which is usually cited as a
> logical fallacy has thoroughly dispelled your notions.
>
> ;-)

On the contrary. I am alarmed by your trust in certain people as 
demigods. ;-)

James

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Thread

Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 20:39 -0700
  Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-12 04:24 -0400
    Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 03:17 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-13 03:28 -0400
    Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 19:12 +0100
      Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 17:09 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 11:10 +0100
        Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-13 23:13 -0400
          Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 09:08 +0100
            Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-15 02:23 -0400
  Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 02:12 -0700
    Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 15:54 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-07 12:19 -0700
        Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 13:30 -0700
          Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-09 19:38 -0700
            Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-09 19:49 -0700
            Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-09 20:58 -0700
            Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 01:45 -0700
              Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-10 10:45 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 23:20 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-11 09:26 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-11 09:50 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:58 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-11 17:38 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 23:39 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-11 19:39 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:22 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 02:21 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-12 21:53 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 03:37 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:49 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-13 12:58 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 07:32 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 19:05 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 13:19 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-15 00:01 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 14:48 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-26 16:23 -0400
                Re: Smaller C James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 00:23 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 16:37 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-27 10:17 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-27 10:24 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-27 10:46 -0400
                Re: Smaller C James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 16:14 +0000
                Re: Smaller C Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-23 13:20 -0500
                Re: Smaller C James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 13:52 +0000
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-27 10:28 -0400
                Re: Smaller C James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 16:31 +0000
                Re: Smaller C Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-23 13:20 -0500
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 16:21 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-20 17:25 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-13 12:43 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:21 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-13 13:02 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 19:09 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-11 13:32 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-11 18:51 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-11 18:16 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 02:36 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:56 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 03:45 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 10:28 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 02:53 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 11:17 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 16:54 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 21:39 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 20:31 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 09:03 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 19:48 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 21:33 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 23:17 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-20 17:37 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-20 23:46 +0100
  Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-11 21:37 -0700
    Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-11 22:29 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 03:25 -0700
        Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-12 11:18 -0700
          Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-12 11:39 -0700
          Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 03:47 -0400
            Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 11:31 -0400
          Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 02:00 -0700
            Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 11:31 -0400
            Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-13 09:15 -0700
    Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 02:45 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-12 10:55 -0700
  Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-15 19:23 -0700
    Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 03:03 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-16 10:17 -0700

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