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Re: Using Forth in the current year.

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On 12/1/2015 12:13 AM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 14:35:12 -0800 (PST)
> Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello clf,
>>
>> Have you heard that Forth can't be used for real applications,
>> because people are too caught up in having to come up with their own
>> data structures?  Have you heard that no Forth teaches the use of
>> 'structs'?
>
> [root@maxa-pc ~]# pacman -Ss forth
> [root@maxa-pc ~]# yaourt forth
> 1 aur/4th 3.62.0-4 (Out of Date) (7)
>      A Forth Compiler
> 2 aur/ficl 4.1.0-1 (0)
>      Forth Inspired Command Language
> 3 aur/gforth 0.7.3-1 [installed] (34)
>      Fast and portable implementation of the ANS Forth language
> 4 aur/pforth-git c232a93-1 (0)
>      A portable implementation of the Forth programming language written
> in ANSI C 5 aur/retro-bzr 453-1 (0)
>      Retro is a portable, stack-based language with roots in Forth.
> ==> Enter n° of packages to be installed (ex: 1 2 3 or 1-3)
> ==> -------------------------------------------------------
> ==>
>
> Seems that problem with forth is that there is no compiler for it
> on Linux....
> What counts is availability of usable libraries and compilers.
>
>>
>> I spent a week, working after work, and one weekend, writing a Forth
>> webserver.  As it only took me about an hour to achieve similar ends
>> with Erlang, this probably isn't impressive.
>
> If you have http server in stdlib, like in Golang, you need 5
> minutes ;)
>
>    But the Forth webserver
>> runs in 22MB fixed memory and the Erlang webserver starts out using
>> 1.1GB of RAM.  npm's 'http-server', written in Node.js, starts out
>> consuming 772MB of RAM.
>
> Golang http server starts with 4mb and grows to 40mb.
> rwasa, written in assembler takes 3mb and starts with 0.5mb.
>
>>
>> Have you heard that those differences in memory use doesn't matter?
>
> What matters is reqs/sec mostly.
>
>>
>> I say 'fixed memory' because the Forth webserver has a bunch of
>> constants and limits in it.  HTTP requests can only be up to some
>> multiple of KB in size; there can only ever be a hundred
>> simultaneous connections; and so on.
>>
>> Have you heard that limits like this are bad design?  Have you heard
>> of the "Zero, One, Many" rule by which a webserver must handle
>> infinitely many connections sending HTTP requests without bounds?
>
> That depends on site. If site is busy, having certain limits is same as
> DOS...
>
>>
>> Have you heard that there's no place for Forth outside of embedded
>> hardware?  If you've got even 1MB of flash, isn't it time to use a
>> 'real language'?
>
> Forth is *slow*. That kills it's usage for me...

Really?  I'd like to see your benchmarks.

-- 

Rick

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Thread

Using Forth in the current year. Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 14:35 -0800
  Re: Using Forth in the current year. Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 06:43 +0200
  Re: Using Forth in the current year. Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-12-01 06:13 +0100
    Re: Using Forth in the current year. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 01:38 -0500
  Re: Using Forth in the current year. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-30 21:22 -0800
  Re: Using Forth in the current year. Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 05:45 -0800
    Re: Using Forth in the current year. Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-12-01 15:01 +0000
      Re: Using Forth in the current year. Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 08:30 -0800
      Re: Using Forth in the current year. anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-12-05 16:35 +0000
  Re: Using Forth in the current year. Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 06:29 -0500
  Re: Using Forth in the current year. Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2015-12-05 13:34 +0100
    Re: Using Forth in the current year. Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2015-12-05 05:56 -0800

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