Re: Question about checking the stack

From	Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Question about checking the stack
Date	2015-11-28 17:55 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<n3cilj$k3$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <47ydnYNjvc2dHcvLnZ2dnUU7-Yv46u6z@supernews.com> <87y4dldyuu.fsf@nightsong.com> <OqadnahRQMaVKsvLnZ2dnUU7-TGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <n36dd3$2nc$1@dont-email.me> <39c6cda5-fd60-4d19-85a3-c732e102a02b@googlegroups.com>

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On 27/11/2015 16:25, Alfred Singlestone wrote:

> The guy who knows our system the best is a literal genius who's been a programmer for forty years and has an acute grasp of the nuances of small changes to our huge product. Even so, he's known for forgetting to change the sense of compares after copying and pasting code. Why? Because he is unfortunately a human being saddled with a human brain, and is therefore prone to make the kind of mistakes that we make.

Exactly my point.

> Allow, but don't force, the computer to do the kind of checking that it's good at. In this situation, maybe do stack checking if a debug flag is on, and not if not. Never assume that users of your product, or your programmers, can't and won't make rookie errors. If you do, you will be committing a rookie error yourself. You will suffer Consequences, and I will have no sympathy.

In my system (8th), I keep the stack check on always.  First of all, the
user does have the option to allow "foreign code" to be interpreted.  It
would be bad if such code could subvert the system.

Second, as I mentioned in an earlier reply, the checking code only takes
a few nanoseconds on modern hardware, perhaps a few microseconds on
mobile devices.  Yes, that contributes to overall latency, but I feel
it's a small price to pay for a more stable system.

The discussion around "efficiency" is misplaced in end-user-oriented
software.  The only important metric in terms of speed is, "is it fast
enough?", in which case the miniscule time taken to check the stack is
immaterial.  If you're software is doing 10^9 loops before giving an
answer, then yes, you'll notice the difference.  Hopefully your SW isn't
doing that...

Thread

Question about checking the stack Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 22:31 -0800
  Re: Question about checking the stack Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-11-25 07:46 +0100
    Re: Question about checking the stack Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 23:09 -0800
      Re: Question about checking the stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 09:16 +0200
  Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-24 23:19 -0800
    Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-24 22:05 -1000
      Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-25 13:17 -0800
        Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-25 13:58 -1000
          Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-25 18:00 -0800
            Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-25 17:44 -1000
              Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-25 23:05 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-25 21:38 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-11-26 09:49 +0200
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-25 22:42 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-26 14:51 +0000
                Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-30 13:00 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-30 21:54 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 04:24 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 05:07 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 06:02 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-01 19:30 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-12-01 14:47 +0000
                Re: Question about checking the stack Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 11:56 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 05:48 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-03 09:24 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 21:10 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-03 20:52 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 06:08 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-12-01 20:32 +0000
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-01 19:32 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-12-01 08:18 +0100
                Re: Question about checking the stack Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-11-27 06:25 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-11-28 17:55 +0200
                Re: Question about checking the stack mhx@iae.nl - 2015-11-28 08:24 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-11-28 20:54 +0200
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-28 11:32 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-28 19:17 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-11-29 07:30 +0200
                Re: Question about checking the stack Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-11-29 09:41 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack minforth@arcor.de - 2015-11-30 01:48 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-30 08:03 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-28 19:09 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-26 00:03 -0800
                Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-25 22:49 -1000
                Re: Question about checking the stack hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-26 10:59 -0800
            Re: Question about checking the stack franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-11-25 21:03 -0800
          Re: Question about checking the stack Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-11-27 06:14 -0800
  Re: Question about checking the stack "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-11-25 04:54 -0500
  Re: Question about checking the stack François <francois.ganza@wanadoo.fr> - 2015-11-25 03:09 -0800
  Re: Question about checking the stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-25 12:53 +0000
    Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-25 09:02 -0800
      Re: Question about checking the stack Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-25 18:53 +0100
        Re: Question about checking the stack Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-25 12:01 -0800
      Re: Question about checking the stack anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-25 17:26 +0000
  Re: Question about checking the stack François <francois.ganza@wanadoo.fr> - 2015-11-25 13:51 -0800
  Re: Question about checking the stack Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-11-28 09:29 -0800
    Re: Question about checking the stack Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-11-28 12:03 -0800
  Re: Question about checking the stack François <francois.ganza@wanadoo.fr> - 2015-12-01 06:15 -0800
  Re: Question about checking the stack Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 14:05 -0800
    Re: Question about checking the stack "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-01 19:35 -1000
    Re: Question about checking the stack dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2015-12-03 03:40 +0000

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