Re: Right C version for GCC

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Right C version for GCC
Date	2015-11-11 16:27 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<n1vmk7$fi2$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <a5e5e540-6717-4924-b727-67d7ee4060eb@googlegroups.com> <n1t34n$dkg$1@dont-email.me> <2c2eff02-9da3-4034-aab2-7816e3ff5cf0@googlegroups.com> <n1vd21$9ds$1@dont-email.me> <n1vitm$ush$2@dont-email.me>

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On 11/11/15 15:27, Les Cargill wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
>> On 11/11/15 10:08, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 3:42:30 PM UTC, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/15 16:25, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>
>>>> My guess is that it was a TMS320F2xxx device - a 16-bit DSP.  Hideous
>>>> devices, IMHO, but surprisingly common.  The development tools for them
>>>> are TI proprietary, and normally used within the TI Code Composter
>>>> Studio IDE, with the actual build process being compile, assemble, link
>>>> - probably three programs taking a few seconds to run.
>>>>
>>> You also had to get the program into the flash.
>>> So there were actually two programs. You'd set it to one, then it
>>> would load the new program into flash, erasing old A. Then you'd
>>> switch execution to new A and get A to load new B on top of A.
>>>
>>> Sometimes things would go wrong and you had to attach a flash
>>> writer manually and refresh that way.
>>
>> Yes, you need some way to get the binary into the device, though
>> strictly speaking that is not part of the build process.  (However, I
>> often have a "make burn" Makefile target to do the flash burn.)
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The company had its own build system, and it took about two
>>>>> hours to build the product from scratch.
>>>>
>>>> Unless this was a build of the complete system - including the Linux
>>>> kernel and all the software for the embedded Linux system, then the
>>>> people making this build system have screwed up royally.  Building a
>>>> complete embedded system certainly takes an enormous amount of bits and
>>>> pieces - but building for a 16-bit microcontroller does not.
>>>>
>>> That was a complete rebuild of everything, including the Linux kernel,
>>> from scratch. The Linux kernel included a loader which would load a
>>> new TMS flash rom.
>>>
>>
>> And /here/ is the problem.  It is nothing to do with the embedded
>> development, or the TMS, or anything else - it is simply a hopelessly
>> badly designed build process.
>>
>>
> 
> I don't think he said they *always* rebuilt the kernel. There would
> be strong incentives to not do that, so they probably didn't.
> 
> I have worked on things where a clean rebuild took 14 hours,
> and did not rebuild a large kernel.
> 

His original comments were:

> The embedded community traditionally uses Linux to host cross-
> compilers and other tools - usually a huge number even for a a little
> project.

> I haven't done much embedded programming, but I have done it.
> I was amazed how many components there were in the chain from
> my keystrokes specifying C source to a running program on the target.

What we have discovered now is that this "amazing chain" and "huge
number of tools" had nothing whatsoever to do with embedded development,
but was an artefact of a poorly designed build process in one particular
project.

Thread

Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 16:49 +0100
  Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 19:29 +0100
  Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-08 11:46 -0800
    Re: Right C version for GCC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-08 20:03 +0000
      Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-08 12:18 -0800
    Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 21:14 +0100
      Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-08 12:25 -0800
        Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-08 13:06 -0800
          Re: Right C version for GCC Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-11-08 14:52 -0800
            Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-08 15:12 -0800
              Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-09 09:38 +0100
              Re: Right C version for GCC Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2015-11-09 19:04 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-09 11:27 -0800
            Re: Right C version for GCC BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-09 00:00 +0000
        Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-08 16:35 -0800
    Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-08 12:37 -0800
      Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-08 12:58 -0800
        Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-08 13:19 -0800
    Re: Right C version for GCC Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-08 21:49 +0000
      Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-08 14:14 -0800
        Re: Right C version for GCC Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-09 01:02 +0000
          Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-09 02:26 -0800
            Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-09 12:53 +0100
            Re: Right C version for GCC Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-09 15:00 +0000
              Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-09 08:55 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-09 17:07 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-09 09:51 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-11-09 19:01 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 19:16 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-09 11:24 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 20:30 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-11-09 20:40 +0100
            Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 08:56 -0800
              Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-09 09:41 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-11-09 17:44 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-09 18:53 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-09 18:00 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-09 10:27 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 11:17 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-09 22:59 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 11:15 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-12 16:47 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-12 09:24 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-13 12:54 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-13 12:01 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-14 10:47 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-14 21:32 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-14 16:57 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 11:07 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 20:18 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 11:27 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 20:41 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 12:07 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 21:12 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-09 23:13 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-11-09 19:02 -0500
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-10 17:52 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-10 21:34 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-17 22:28 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-18 00:51 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-11-17 22:26 -0500
                Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-18 11:06 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-09 15:37 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-10 12:54 +1300
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 16:14 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-09 16:37 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 16:56 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-09 17:25 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 10:37 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-09 18:06 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 18:51 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-10 08:40 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-10 17:55 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-10 17:50 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 14:32 +0100
          Re: Right C version for GCC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-09 10:35 +0000
      Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-08 23:57 +0100
        Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 00:47 +0100
          Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-09 13:01 +0100
            Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 13:18 +0100
              Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-09 14:01 +0100
        Re: Right C version for GCC Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-09 00:55 +0000
          Re: Right C version for GCC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-09 10:42 +0000
            Re: Right C version for GCC Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 03:03 -0800
              Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-09 03:27 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-09 12:28 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-10 09:07 +0000
              Re: Right C version for GCC James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-11-09 07:37 -0500
            Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-09 16:57 +0100
      Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-09 12:39 +0100
        Re: Right C version for GCC James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-11-09 13:18 -0500
          Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 10:49 +0100
            Re: Right C version for GCC Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-11-10 19:33 -0600
              Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 13:34 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-11 06:53 -0800
    Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-08 17:00 -0800
      Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-09 13:37 +0100
      Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-09 13:53 +0100
    Re: Right C version for GCC BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-09 21:54 +0000
      Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-09 15:45 -0800
        Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 11:14 +0100
          Re: Right C version for GCC BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-10 10:53 +0000
          Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-10 03:14 -0800
            Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 13:00 +0100
              Re: Right C version for GCC BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-10 12:39 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 15:11 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-10 16:16 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 16:35 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-10 08:54 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 18:56 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-10 23:27 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-17 22:32 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-18 08:44 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-19 10:43 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-19 12:29 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-20 11:01 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-21 15:50 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-11-18 11:13 +0100
              Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-10 07:25 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 16:42 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-10 08:48 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-11 01:08 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 13:43 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-11-11 08:27 -0600
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 16:27 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-12-06 07:57 -0500
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-06 22:34 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-12-06 22:41 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-07 09:47 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-07 07:30 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-07 17:30 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-07 10:17 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-07 21:29 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-07 13:16 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-07 23:35 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC jadill33@gmail.com - 2015-12-07 10:41 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-07 21:35 +0100
  Re: Right C version for GCC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-08 20:11 +0000
  Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-09 09:57 +1300
    Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-08 13:06 -0800
      Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-09 10:16 +1300
        Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 22:59 +0100
          Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-09 12:13 +1300
            Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 00:43 +0100
              Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-09 13:00 +1300
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 12:02 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 09:00 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-10 07:25 +1300
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 19:35 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-10 08:55 +1300
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 21:00 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-10 09:04 +1300
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 21:11 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-09 20:18 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 21:21 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-10 09:30 +1300
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 12:53 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-09 12:30 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-09 13:02 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-09 21:35 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-09 14:41 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-09 23:31 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-09 16:33 -0800
                Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-10 11:16 +0100
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-11 08:04 +1300
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-10 18:04 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-10 18:03 +0000
                Re: Right C version for GCC Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-11 08:23 +1300
          Re: Right C version for GCC David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-09 13:41 +0100
      Re: Right C version for GCC supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-08 13:24 -0800
      Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 23:00 +0100
        Re: Right C version for GCC Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-08 15:18 -0800
          Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 00:35 +0100
          Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-08 17:03 -0800
            Re: Right C version for GCC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-09 12:42 +0000
  Re: Right C version for GCC Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-08 17:51 -0800
  Re: Right C version for GCC Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-11-09 12:20 -0600
    Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 19:36 +0100
    Re: Right C version for GCC BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-09 18:47 +0000
  Re: Right C version for GCC Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-11-11 00:55 -0600
    Re: Right C version for GCC "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 14:39 +0100

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