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Groups > alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus > #141
| From | "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus, alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.sys.laptops |
| Subject | Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage |
| Date | 2015-10-21 18:43 -0700 |
| Organization | albasani.net |
| Message-ID | <n09far$cju$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink) |
| References | (8 earlier) <n06ijr$men$1@dont-email.me> <n07dmf$li3$1@dont-email.me> <n07es3$p59$1@dont-email.me> <n08vum$58c$1@news.albasani.net> <n093lt$8bd$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:n093lt$8bd$1@dont-email.me...
> Adam wrote:
>> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
>> news:n07es3$p59$1@dont-email.me...
>>> mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
>>>> designs. You find out after it's too late.
>>> The charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
>>> components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
>>> solutions.
>>>
>>> This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
>>> reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
>>> charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
>>> (no charge termination).
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
>>> which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
>>> to make a "high impedance" charging circuit. The packaging
>>> claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
>>> achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
>>> charge it quickly) with the charger. But in terms
>>> of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
>>> removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
>>> you with only an AC transformer.
>>>
>>> If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
>>> could have cut a few more corners.
>>>
>>> It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
>>> so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
>>> that a lot more care is put into them. If it wasn't
>>> for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
>>> charging chips.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Thanks (Guru Paul, et al), for the clarification.
>> I think everyone is "right" but just saying
>> the same thing in their own unique ways.
>>
>> Sorry, I should have been more clear.
>> Let me rephrase...
>>
>> For laptops (or more valuable equipment nowadays),
>> if I stick with a compatible voltage (19V) AC adapter with
>> sufficient power (90+W), I should be fine since
>> more and more safety measures (like sensors) are
>> designed in to protect valuable equipment.
>> Safety measures designed in is directly proportional to
>> value of equipment (both increase/decrease together).
>>
>> Any recommendations on resources (books, magazines, websites, etc.) on
>> power for newbies?
>>
>
> Most of what I've learned, was by analysing stuff (schematics),
> or learning by making mistakes.
>
> To illustrate, there are three kinds of adapters for
> consumer electronics. These are general categories.
>
> 1) AC adapter (it's just a transformer)
> 2) Unregulated DC adapter (transformer, rectifiers, filter cap)
> DC voltage varies with loading.
> 3) Regulated DC adapter (SMPS, similar to ATX power supply design,
> isolated for shock protection, overcurrent detection with
> various behaviors on overcurrent). Complete switch-off being
> a common overcurrent behavior). Connect a 2 amp light bulb
> to a 2 amp adapter, it will shut off. Why ? The bulb draws
> 4 amps when it is cold, trips the OC immediately, and the
> adapter shuts off.
>
> OK, I bought a label maker one day. It had provision for battery
> operation. You were supposed to pour $$$ worth of dry cells into
> the thing. An optional adapter was available, at $50 !!!
> Well, naturally, being a cheap-skate, I wanted neither dry cells
> nor a $50 adapter.
>
> On the housing of the unit, next to the barrel connector for power,
> it said "7VDC", and had the symbol for center-positive power. So
> I bought a *regulated* 7VDC adapter and plugged it in. I verified
> the adapter made exactly 7V, and it did do that. With a fairly high
> current rating (so not likely to poop out on OC).
>
> So I try to print a label, and... nothing.
>
> So I eventually break down and buy the optional adapter for $50.
> Turns out it is unregulated. At no load, the adapter makes *10V*
> and at the instant the motor cranks the label through the print
> area, the voltage drops down to 7V due to the increased current
> draw.
>
> So it really needed the elevated (unspecified) 10V voltage to make
> the keyboard and display and control chip work.
>
> That lesson taught me, that the specification printed on
> the housing ("7VDC") could be regulated or unregulated, and
> there is no way to know which is appropriate. They kinda got you
> by the nuts.
:-)
Thanks, sounds similar to my current trial experience with ac adapters.
I had to return the first laptop charger because, when connected,
the slightest tap of the plug/barrel/jack can cause the battery to
take over as if the ac adapter were "not" connected.
Maybe this all points back to that less than stellar power supply standard?
With another laptop charger, can't get the battery to
take over no matter how hard I wiggle that barrel plug.
>
> And that's learning by making mistakes.
>
> As for your laptop, I don't see a reason in what I've seen
> in the schematic so far, for there to be a dependency on adapter
> power rating. Your laptop is the 90W design. A 19V adapter
> of 90W or 135W should work. The charging circuit has control
> of what it is doing, and is not dependent on external impedance
> characteristics. The charger chip has slow start (inrush limit),
> so if the adapter is already plugged into the wall and you
> shove the barrel into the laptop jack, the adapter doesn't
> quit on OC. There is a clamp diode near the jack, so if the
> barrel is removed while the adapter is powered, the inductive
> kick-back is quenched. The design has a current sampling shunt,
> which implies the chip can sense the current. And knows if
> too much current is being drawn. And it has a fair number
> of MOSFETs to control various things. As long as MOSFETs are
> saturated (fully ON or fully OFF), they don't get all that
> warm. And that's important. It's easy to burn out a MOSFET
> with no heatsink, by turning it half-ON by design. This is
> why SMPS circuits take turns with MOSFETs fully ON or fully OFF,
> to achieve a desired result. The devices then get warm but
> not hot.
>
> There are adapters that have more than two wires, and that
> immediately makes me suspicious. It implies some form of
> control, or "adapter power rating checking" being done
> by the laptop. That tends to happen with stuff above
> 65W. You're likely to find 65W designs to be pretty simple
> and carefree. Anything above that, you should keep your
> eyes open, and do a bit of Googling to learn of the
> issues.
>
> Paul
Thanks (Guru Paul), there's no better way to
know the truth than to go straight to the source/schematic. :-)
It's good to know that my laptop can definitely take
a more powerful (>90W) power supply, but, so far,
the makers of "quality" laptop chargers do not offer
anything more powerful than 90W. Although,
I think I saw some (120W?) at the store by other makers.
I might go back to look more closely at those more powerful laptop chargers.
So far, I've only come across 2-wire laptop chargers but,
now that I know, I'll watch out for non-2-wire laptop chargers.
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cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-15 11:33 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2015-10-15 11:40 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-15 11:56 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-15 12:21 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2015-10-15 15:29 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-15 12:36 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Johnny <johnny@invalid.net> - 2015-10-15 14:41 -0500
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-15 12:56 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2015-10-15 16:08 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-15 13:42 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-15 13:21 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-16 08:11 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-16 20:13 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-16 21:05 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 01:07 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 01:00 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-16 23:03 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 08:19 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-17 12:04 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 02:56 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 23:22 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 03:40 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 23:50 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 03:59 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Onion Knight <onionknight@linuxmail.org> - 2015-10-18 11:14 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-18 11:17 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Godzilla <godzilla@lizardboss.invalid> - 2015-10-18 15:24 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-18 17:06 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Godzilla <godzilla@lizardboss.invalid> - 2015-10-18 22:22 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-18 11:18 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 21:01 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-18 17:10 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-18 13:58 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 01:03 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> - 2015-10-17 09:48 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 10:01 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-20 07:50 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Charlie Hoffpauir <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-10-20 10:49 -0500
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 12:21 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-20 11:17 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 14:33 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-20 11:54 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2015-10-20 12:54 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 16:00 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 16:01 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 16:03 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2015-10-20 14:32 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 19:51 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 16:04 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Paul <nospam@needed.com> - 2015-10-20 19:29 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 20:03 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2015-10-21 00:10 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Paul <nospam@needed.com> - 2015-10-21 03:31 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-21 08:40 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-21 14:22 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Paul <nospam@needed.com> - 2015-10-21 18:32 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-21 18:43 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-21 08:30 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-21 08:30 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-17 09:07 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2015-10-17 10:22 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-17 11:39 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2015-10-17 12:21 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-17 12:36 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2015-10-17 20:43 -0500
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Paul <nospam@needed.com> - 2015-10-16 09:23 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-16 09:37 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2015-10-16 09:39 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> - 2015-10-16 10:19 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2015-10-16 14:47 -0500
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-16 23:18 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-16 20:17 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 02:29 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 23:07 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 03:42 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 23:52 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 04:02 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-16 20:18 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 02:32 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 23:09 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 23:11 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 03:53 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-17 23:56 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2015-10-18 04:06 +0000
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-18 00:58 -0400
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage crankypuss <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-10-17 04:01 -0600
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> - 2015-10-20 11:01 -0700
Re: cannot power "on" ASUS laptop after power outage DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2015-10-20 14:31 -0400
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