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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #42695

Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching
Date 2015-10-18 21:34 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <n00s3p$1lt$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <2015Oct8.085929@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <8dcd7403-fae3-4ec0-bb16-cb771c2f73ea@googlegroups.com> <50f42d9d-f1b1-46f3-8b57-da39bab554d3@googlegroups.com> <mvubrr$vuv$1@dont-email.me> <mvvbu4$m7f$1@dont-email.me>

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rickman wrote:

> On 10/17/2015 4:44 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
>> JUERGEN wrote:
>>> This was my starting point of decoupling commercial and other.
>>> You can do anything in Forth - if the 2 main suppliers set a standard -
>>> others can use it or not - for them nothing changes.
>>
>> Well, they then can only follow, and not contribute.  I find it rather
>> bizarre that you first mention the experience of an open group which
>> accepted your input, and then you suggest that you want two benevolent
>> dictators of your choice.  Then it's no longer open, but an exclusive
>> club of Steven and Leon.
> 
> Man, you got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.  He never
> "suggested" anything.  He said, "IF".

This was already a reply to his first suggestion.  The original bullshit was 
this (with 3 levels of indentation to show tht it's Jürgen's quote):

>>> My summary is very simple:
>>> Change the name to Commercial Forth Language Definitions rather than ANS 
>>> Forth. 
>>> 
>>> Then the commercial progression of Forth is not hindered,
>>> - and by the same people as now 
>>> - and the rest of the Forth community could either support this effort, 
or for example implement in the same way 
>>> - or do what they like to do differently 
>>> - so not much different to how the Forth Community works now,
>>>  
>>> but giving the Commercial Vendors the opportunity to steer their product 
to more success of the Forth Language.
>>> - my 2 cents.

Apparently he sees the commercial vendors hinderend in progress by the 
community, and he wants the commercial vendors have the only say, after 
telling us that this is not a closed club and he was allowed to speak, and 
praising the debate culture.  WTF?

> He is simply saying that were it that the two vendors *were* in total
> control of the Forth standard, that doesn't mean anyone has to follow
> along dutifully obeying orders.

Maybe you have a language barrier here. Jürgen is German, and (not just) 
between the lines, he says that in his oppinion the openness and the 
community is a problem, and the vendors should dictate a standard and the 
community can follow or not, but if they don't, they are simply left behind 
for the better or such.

On the other hand, if you read the minutes of the meeting, you see 
immediately that the vendors are very slow in trying the more ambitious 
proposals (for two RfDs the summary is "need some more years").  This is 
usually so, the vendors have customers with big, difficult to maintain code 
(if you have 1 million lines of code, you don't want to change it), and are 
nervous about potentially incompatible changes; incompatible with their own 
idiosyncratic extensions, of course.

We have also the different position between the vendors and the community 
what the standard should achive: the original ANS Forth approach is to allow 
many different implementations and document the resulting dependencies; the 
community side wants a standard where you write a non-trivial Forth program 
on one system and it works on another, because it does not have to use 
system-specific extensions.

We made some progress in the mindset of the vendors, though; I think MPE 
understands better now that a standard is not just a least common ground, 
and the documentation of where things differ, and common practice can also 
come from tightening up diverse practice where it doesn't make sense to 
divert just for the sake of itself.

We had the view of the standard to instruct "portable programmers" instead 
of portable programs, the diction that writing portable programs is an ego-
less discipline, while apparently the system implementer is allowed to be 
full of himself, and create idiosyncratic stuff which makes life of the 
users more difficult (at least when they want to port their programs).  I've 
a good feeling that Stephen has been convinced that this is actually a bad 
idea, and that we need libraries, and a library approach only works with a 
write once, run everywhere.  No harness stuff for every system, sorry, 
Stephen.

However, unless there's actually more effort spent into creating the various 
Forth systems than writing applications (which may be the case, but this is 
not the desired case ;-), it's better to provide them with portability 
instead of idiosyncratic differences just for the sake to be different.  
Vendors might like vendor lock in; and especially commercial vendors might 
like when the user base has no choice and can't move to the competition 
(whether free or commercial competition doesn't really matter).

This behavior is a loss for mankind and of course for Forth.  This is a 
local optimum for the vendors: They can't expand their customer base, 
because the customers of the competition have difficulties to switch, but at 
least their customer base is not shrinking, either; at least in the short 
run.  In the long run, they will lose their customer base, because nobody 
likes a language where you have seen one Forth when you've seen one Forth.

So commercial vendors are part of the standard process, which they need to 
be, but not so much part of the progress.  Progress happens only by kicking 
some asses, especially when people have conflicting interests that prevent 
portable programs.

Usually, system implementers usually have the position "I want my system to 
be standard".  Including, of course, the differences; so handing them alone 
the key to the standardization will result in no convergence, but the 
documentation of the diversity.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-20 08:45 +0000
  Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-09-20 06:34 -0700
    Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-21 20:11 +0200
      Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-09-23 11:29 -0700
        Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-23 21:03 +0200
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 03:02 -0700
  Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-21 01:13 -0700
    Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-21 09:26 +0000
      Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-03 03:46 -0700
        Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-03 22:56 -0700
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 02:44 -0400
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-04 01:14 -0700
            Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 05:08 -0400
              Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-04 04:06 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-10-04 07:25 -0500
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-04 06:49 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 09:21 -0700
            Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-09 13:24 -0700
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-08 22:18 +0000
        Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 06:59 +0000
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2015-10-08 04:24 -0700
            Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-08 05:08 -0700
            Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 13:57 +0000
              Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2015-10-08 13:36 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-08 13:50 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-10 12:10 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-08 18:10 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-10 14:10 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-10 23:12 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-10-12 10:18 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 14:02 -0400
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-12 08:03 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-12 14:58 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-10-13 01:25 +0200
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-12 17:38 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-12 16:39 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-10 19:12 -0400
            Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-08 07:31 -0700
              Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-17 22:44 +0200
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-17 21:47 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 01:51 -0400
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-17 20:26 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-18 21:34 +0200
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-19 17:00 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-20 01:51 +0200
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-19 16:24 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-20 02:44 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-20 13:01 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-20 22:59 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-20 23:57 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-21 10:58 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-11-11 14:06 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-11-11 14:48 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-11 14:59 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-11-12 05:28 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-12 18:18 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-11-11 15:12 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-11-12 05:35 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-11-12 06:24 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-11-12 14:44 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-11 15:18 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-20 12:36 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-18 12:54 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-19 02:47 +0200
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-08 07:24 -0700
            Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-08 15:10 +0000
              Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-08 09:15 -0700
        Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-02 20:35 +0000
  Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-10-13 17:30 -0700
    Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-13 19:36 -0700
    Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-13 23:54 -0700
    Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 00:04 -0700
    Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 00:09 -0700
    Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-14 09:45 +0000
      Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 14:54 +0300
    Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2015-10-28 10:13 -0700
      Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-28 11:38 -0700
        Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 22:03 -0700
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-31 02:10 -0700
            Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 02:50 -0700
            Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-31 18:58 +0100
              Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-10-31 14:18 -0700
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-31 23:43 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-11-07 10:44 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-07 23:02 +0100
              Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-31 14:48 -0700
              Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 01:03 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-02 01:44 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 01:59 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 02:19 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-02 17:32 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 02:14 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-02 12:10 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-02 16:45 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 10:26 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-02 02:57 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 16:06 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-02 09:36 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-11-02 21:18 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 11:56 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-03 18:16 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-04 10:53 +0000
                16-bit Forth for Linux Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-11-20 11:13 +0100
                Re: 16-bit Forth for Linux Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-20 15:08 +0000
                Re: 16-bit Forth for Linux Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-11-20 20:11 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 11:10 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-02 12:43 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-11-03 03:05 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-03 11:11 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-11-03 03:07 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-03 11:15 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-02 12:18 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-02 12:07 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-11-02 15:41 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-02 20:27 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-03 11:00 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 11:28 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-03 12:18 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 17:03 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-03 19:29 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-04 14:47 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-11-04 21:15 -0500
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-11-05 03:19 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-04 16:37 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-04 20:54 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-05 06:32 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-11-04 21:17 -0500
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-04 16:44 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-05 01:24 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-05 14:50 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-05 12:49 -0800
                CMFORTH Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-11-06 08:43 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 10:46 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 05:52 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 14:52 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 08:06 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 08:32 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-02 20:04 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 22:31 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-03 18:49 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 12:24 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-03 19:45 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-03 22:30 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-04 10:42 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-04 14:08 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-04 14:07 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-04 14:34 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-04 17:32 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-05 23:00 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-06 07:27 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-06 22:04 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-07 16:07 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-04 13:58 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-04 15:04 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-04 14:30 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 11:57 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-11-04 12:06 -1000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-04 14:53 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-07 14:44 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-08 00:02 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 15:22 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-09 01:15 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 17:06 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-08 22:12 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 16:17 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-11 02:57 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-10 19:56 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 10:13 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-12 01:53 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-12 09:19 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 17:30 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-11-14 20:31 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 14:50 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Alfred Singlestone <vitonis@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 05:07 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 22:20 -0800
              Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-11-02 09:27 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 10:51 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-02 14:37 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-11-02 23:20 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-03 10:01 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 02:30 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-03 18:08 +0000
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-11-03 06:05 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-03 19:35 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-11-03 12:27 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-03 22:37 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-11-03 14:39 -0800
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-04 14:54 +0100
                Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 06:21 -0800
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-31 15:00 -0700
          Re: EuroForth 2015 paper deadline approaching Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 13:21 -0800

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