Re: Smaller C

From	"James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	alt.os.development
Subject	Re: Smaller C
Date	2015-09-13 09:49 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<mt3d77$boq$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
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"Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> wrote in message 
news:op.x4v4snbyyfako5@localhost...
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 15:53:48 -0400, wolfgang kern <nowhere@never.at> 
> wrote:
>
>> Rod Pemberton mentioned:
>
>>> AIR, Wolfgang doesn't program in C, ... yet.  ;-)
>>
>> You can be sure that I never ever will start coding in any HLL !
>
> So, you've never used a HLL?  You've never even used BASIC or Pascal
> or Fortran?  How did you manage that?  Usually school or work wants
> you to use some HLL ...  What if you design one?

Wolfgang design an HLL? That would be interesting, for sure. Perhaps 
there should be a rule that people who hate HLLs and love assembly 
should get to design at least one HLL in their lives. The result might 
be novel and welcome to anyone who values efficiency.

>>> He uses hex assembly.  I'm glad to see he's learning a bit.
>>
>> Yeah, I learned that 'const' doesn't mean a 'constant'.
>
> A 'static' variable doesn't mean 'constant' either and can change ...
> If fact, 'static' has multiple meanings depending on where it's used.
> If my old copy of Harbison & Steele is correct, it has four meanings.

Perhaps H&S are splitting a static function from a static variable to 
make one concept into two (even though that would still only make three 
concepts rather than four)? They did that with the switch keyword we 
discussed a while ago, thus making the concept harder to grasp - in the 
guise of making it easier. :-(

> Since I almost never use 'static', I had to look that up.

Since you mentioned four uses I also had to look it up but could only 
find the two I mentioned. Again, H&S multiplying necessities...?

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

(Sorry to anyone who likes H&S for my negative view of their tome. 
However, from the little I have heard of it it seems to continually make 
properly learning C harder rather than easier. I remember heading about 
another C author, one of the Schildts, possibly, who wrote a book on the 
C standard that was so riddled with errors both small and conceptual 
that it actually prevented readers from learning C. Yet it became a big 
seller. There's not necessarily a link between popularity and 
helpfulness.)

...

> Haven't you ever needed another name or word for a subroutine
> or label but were unable to think of one?
>
> Sometimes, there are no useable names remaining.  'loop' is an
> instruction.  What other words are there for 'loop' in English?
> There's 'loop'.  That's it.  British English has 'roundabout'
> which is a type of backwards loop.

I have to say from this side of the pond I wouldn't equate roundabout 
with loop.

> C came up with 'for' 'while'
> 'do' ... or perhaps borrowed them from other languages.  'repeat'
> might work, but nothing accurately represents 'loop'.

FOR was from mathematics, I think.

DO from Fortran sounds like something that is to be done once, not 
repeated (although C's DO ... WHILE sounds more apt).

REPEAT makes more sense, though.

> I'd panic if I ever had to navigate this in England:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29

Yeah, that looks a bit crazy.

> I sometimes can't think of another appropriate name ...  I'm
> naming them 'stuff' and 'things' and 'whatever', like 'do_stuff'
> 'fill_things' and 'emit_whatever'.  Yes, I use completely vague
> names so I'm not wasting time thinking of good names.  Or, I
> start labeling them with a letter and hex: l0000, l0001, ...
> lffff.  If I exceed the number for 'l' then it's 'm': m0000,
> m0001, ... and so on.

At least in well-structured HLL code we need far fewer labels. Poor old 
Wolfgang has to label every jump target. ;-)

James

Thread

Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 20:39 -0700
  Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-12 04:24 -0400
    Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 03:17 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-13 03:28 -0400
    Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 19:12 +0100
      Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 17:09 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 11:10 +0100
        Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-13 23:13 -0400
          Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 09:08 +0100
            Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-07-15 02:23 -0400
  Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 02:12 -0700
    Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 15:54 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-07 12:19 -0700
        Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 13:30 -0700
          Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-09 19:38 -0700
            Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-09 19:49 -0700
            Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-09 20:58 -0700
            Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 01:45 -0700
              Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-10 10:45 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 23:20 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-11 09:26 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-11 09:50 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 00:58 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-11 17:38 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-11 23:39 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-11 19:39 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:22 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 02:21 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-12 21:53 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 03:37 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:49 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-13 12:58 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 07:32 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 19:05 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 13:19 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-15 00:01 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 14:48 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-26 16:23 -0400
                Re: Smaller C James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 00:23 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 16:37 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-27 10:17 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-27 10:24 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-27 10:46 -0400
                Re: Smaller C James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 16:14 +0000
                Re: Smaller C Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-23 13:20 -0500
                Re: Smaller C James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 13:52 +0000
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-27 10:28 -0400
                Re: Smaller C James Harris <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 16:31 +0000
                Re: Smaller C Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-23 13:20 -0500
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 16:21 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-20 17:25 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-13 12:43 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 09:21 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "wolfgang kern" <nowhere@never.at> - 2015-09-13 13:02 +0200
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 19:09 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-11 13:32 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-11 18:51 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-11 18:16 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 02:36 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 11:56 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 03:45 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 10:28 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 02:53 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 11:17 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 16:54 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 21:39 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 20:31 -0700
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 09:03 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 19:48 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 21:33 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 23:17 +0100
                Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-20 17:37 -0400
                Re: Smaller C "James Harris" <james.harris.1@gmail.com> - 2015-09-20 23:46 +0100
  Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-11 21:37 -0700
    Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-11 22:29 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 03:25 -0700
        Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-12 11:18 -0700
          Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-12 11:39 -0700
          Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 03:47 -0400
            Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 11:31 -0400
          Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 02:00 -0700
            Re: Smaller C "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-09-13 11:31 -0400
            Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-13 09:15 -0700
    Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 02:45 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-12 10:55 -0700
  Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-15 19:23 -0700
    Re: Smaller C "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2015-09-16 03:03 -0700
      Re: Smaller C "Benjamin David Lunt" <zfysz@fysnet.net> - 2015-09-16 10:17 -0700

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