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Re: GA144 use cases

From rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: GA144 use cases
Date 2015-09-10 16:10 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mssnvp$1o5$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <msqu5c$bkr$1@dont-email.me> <msqvj6$d3i$3@dont-email.me> <66783d4e-9cff-49ca-b7ac-b59856d17ab3@googlegroups.com> <msr55v$tar$1@dont-email.me> <7a289415-dc93-49b6-b3f9-6aab53a23160@googlegroups.com>

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On 9/10/2015 2:49 AM, Stefan Mauerhofer wrote:
>> I don't recall exactly the Bresenham algorithm, but I'd be willing
>> to bet it ends up being the same as an NCO, numerically controlled
>> oscillator.  The average frequency is the ratio of two integers,
>> the step size and the counter modulus.  This is an often used
>> algorithm for generating a frequency with as much precision as
>> required.
>
> Yes, you are right. I am using this algorithm.
>
>> I seem to recall the info I read at GA on their oscillator attempt
>> put out a ping, a minimum width impulse into the crystal.  That is
>> likely more than enough for maintaining the energy in the crystal,
>> but to start it a square wave might work better to put more energy
>> in more quickly. Which did you do at the start?
>
> I am using a square wave for starting the crystal.
>
>> Do you stimulate the crystal for a fixed amount of time at a given
>> frequency?  Or do you "look" for the crystal oscillating in
>> response to your stimulus?  I guess it is likely both, stimulate
>> for a time and then look.  If no input back from the crystal, move
>> on to the next frequency. What range of timing values do you
>> cover?
>
> The crystal is stimulated for a fixed amount of square wave cycles
> (to avoid measuring the elapsed time). Then the pin is switched to
> input to check if there is a transition coming back from the crystal.
> Initially I used way too long wires to connect the crystal to the
> EvalBoard, so a nearby power line could induce a 60 Hz signal,
> messing up the whole process. If no transition is detected for a
> certain time, then the next frequency is selected and the whole
> process starts again.
>
>
>> Yes, this is as expected.  The interesting part will be to see how
>> long it takes to get a crystal started in the worst case which is
>> likely one or the other temperature extreme.
>
> The time to start the crystal is depending on the scanning range and
> resolution. For 1 MHz crystals I don't need an increment in 1/64. 1/2
> or 1/4 is sufficient for those.

1/64 or 1/4 mean what, that portion of a step size ( 1 count of UNEXT ) 
by dithering?


>> I know that many MCU makers don't specify their crystal oscillators
>> very well.  I have had to ask manufacturers for more info which in
>> one case found it's way into the data sheet.  The trick here will
>> be to get well specified operation for specified crystals.  ...
>
> Yes,  it is different to make a crystal work in the lab or to provide
> safe operations of a crystal in a product sold by the thousands or
> millions. I am still not pleased with my code, especially the failure
> with the 2 MHz crystal worries me. I could start the 2 MHz xtal but
> could not keep it running.. I get some feedback but I think I did not
> stimulate the crystal enough to keep it running. I will improve my
> code not to halt on the first sign of resonance but to measure how
> many times the crystal oscillates by itself without pumping in any
> energy. Then I can find the maximum stimulus response frequency and
> hopefully make run also the 2 MHz algorithm with the improved
> algorithm.

Ok, so a 1 MHz crystal works as do several up to 16 MHz, but not the 2 
MHz.  Do you have detailed info on this crystal?  If it starts but dies 
off after switching to "ping" mode from square wave, maybe the ping 
needs to be longer than the minimum on/off time which is what I assume 
you are doing?  A tiny impulse doesn't put much energy into the crystal 
and the 2 MHz part may have a higher ESR which increases the damping 
factor.

In addition to "working", I would like to understand how the digital 
oscillator interacts with the crystal in a systematic way.  There is a 
lot of info on crystals and most of it is not terribly complete.  I have 
found one or two references that seem to cover the topic thoroughly.  It 
is not always easy to construct a crystal oscillator that works under a 
range of conditions (usually PVT, but in this case also the crystal 
specs).


> Anyway, I am having still a lot of fun with the GA144, although I
> feel a bit claustrophobic programming a chip with so little memory
> per node :-) On the other hand it has some unique features which
> distinguishes it from any other chip I know. And if I have some
> problems with the unorthodox IDE I get help from GA. They have a
> hotline.

I have three chips sitting here that I don't know what to do with.  It 
seems every thing about this part is done halfway.  Even the low cost 
mounting option has no provision for decoupling caps, the Schmartboard.


****
Very frustrating working with an unreliable computer. In addition to the 
several issues this computer has had since day one, it now has an 
intermittent software problem that shuts down all networking. I can't 
even reach the router or modem when it is acting up. I was letting the 
battery run down to see if that would help reset the condition and was 
typing a reply when the computer just quit without any of the several 
warnings I am supposed to get. Crap!

I got all ticked off and started yelling about driving up to the city to 
get a new machine. I started the computer back up and after three days 
of very limited Internet it is working again. :P  I'm still pissed, but 
I'll wait until tomorrow to get the new machine.

-- 

Rick

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GA144 use cases dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2015-08-31 07:20 +0000
  Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 09:55 -0400
  Re: GA144 use cases Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 16:49 +0100
    Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 18:35 -0400
  Re: GA144 use cases Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:08 -0700
    Re: GA144 use cases Mux <Yvo.Zoer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 10:57 -0700
      Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 14:17 -0400
        Re: GA144 use cases Mux <Yvo.Zoer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 11:28 -0700
          Re: GA144 use cases hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-09-02 13:41 -0700
          Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 16:50 -0400
            Re: GA144 use cases Mux <Yvo.Zoer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 15:03 -0700
              Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 18:18 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Mux <Yvo.Zoer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 16:14 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 20:40 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <borota@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 17:53 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 21:25 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Mux <Yvo.Zoer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 22:28 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-02 22:53 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 11:32 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-03 11:57 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-03 10:35 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-03 15:54 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-03 16:11 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 13:06 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-04 08:07 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 11:49 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-05 11:06 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-05 09:05 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 12:59 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases mhx@iae.nl - 2015-09-05 10:56 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-06 14:29 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-03 22:08 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-03 14:00 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-04 01:28 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-09-03 23:04 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-04 08:24 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-04 15:09 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-05 15:10 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-05 22:04 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-06 14:51 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-06 22:51 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <borota@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 17:30 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-04 22:27 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-05 13:07 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-05 11:22 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-04 08:14 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-04 15:13 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-05 16:06 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-05 21:05 +0200
                Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-06 14:37 +0000
                Re: GA144 use cases Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2015-11-30 04:17 -0600
                Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-12-01 23:06 +0100
                Re: GA144 use cases Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 00:05 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 13:08 -0400
              Re: GA144 use cases forther <forther@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 11:26 -0700
      Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 15:15 -0400
    Re: GA144 use cases forther <forther@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 11:21 -0700
      Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 16:33 -0500
        Re: GA144 use cases forther <forther@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 12:12 -0800
          Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 16:10 -0500
  Re: GA144 use cases Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-02 12:10 -0700
  Re: GA144 use cases Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2015-09-03 01:27 -0700
    Re: GA144 use cases Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2015-09-03 13:32 +0100
      Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 11:32 -0400
  Re: GA144 use cases mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2015-09-03 18:57 +0200
    Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-03 23:58 +0200
    Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-04 07:52 +0000
    Re: GA144 use cases Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@antispam.uni.wroc.pl> - 2015-09-05 16:32 +0000
      Re: GA144 use cases mhx@iae.nl - 2015-09-05 10:52 -0700
        Re: GA144 use cases Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-09-05 22:11 +0200
          Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-06 14:18 +0000
            Re: GA144 use cases anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-09-07 07:49 +0000
        Re: GA144 use cases Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> - 2015-09-05 23:42 +0000
          Re: GA144 use cases Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-05 17:25 -0700
  Re: GA144 use cases Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2015-09-07 03:18 -0700
    Re: GA144 use cases Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 03:31 -0700
      Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 15:06 -0400
        Re: GA144 use cases Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2015-09-08 21:41 -0700
          Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 02:54 -0400
            Re: GA144 use cases Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2015-09-09 03:02 -0700
              Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 16:55 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-09 20:12 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 23:40 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-09 23:43 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 00:07 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2015-09-09 21:55 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 01:43 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2015-09-09 23:49 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 14:43 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-10 16:10 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2015-09-12 03:15 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-12 10:28 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <abiforth@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 13:05 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 18:59 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <abiforth@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 18:42 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 22:47 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <abiforth@gmail.com> - 2015-09-13 21:24 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 02:00 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases borota@gmail.com - 2015-09-14 08:35 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 12:06 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases borota@gmail.com - 2015-09-14 09:33 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 13:25 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <borota@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 14:17 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 18:12 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <schmegner@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 18:15 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-09-14 22:16 -0400
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <borota@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 14:50 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-18 15:11 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <borota@gmail.com> - 2015-09-19 05:32 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-19 08:39 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Greg <borota@gmail.com> - 2015-09-20 19:03 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-21 06:44 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2015-09-22 13:10 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-09-18 16:18 -0700
                Re: GA144 use cases schmegner@gmail.com - 2015-09-14 18:21 -0700

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