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Re: Two Book Recommendations

From wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman)
Newsgroups rec.arts.sf.written
Subject Re: Two Book Recommendations
Date 2015-08-24 02:01 +0000
Organization none
Message-ID <mrdttf$1qp3$4@grapevine.csail.mit.edu> (permalink)
References <1sn5pe732ddib.wf2hwr4m6ji2.dlg@40tude.net> <mrajnu$3uv$1@dont-email.me> <ntI5H0.yt0@kithrup.com> <mrb06c$gno$1@dont-email.me>

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In article <mrb06c$gno$1@dont-email.me>, Magewolf  <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>I think it would not take much interaction with Chlorine trifluoride or 
>the equivalent to be passionately against it. The hard part would be 
>surviving to have any opinion at all.

OK, is that the cue for the obligatory quote from "Ignition!"?  Here
it is:

	It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the
	problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so
	rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been
	measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth,
	wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and
	water-with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some
	of the ordinary structural metals-steel, copper, aluminium,
	etc.-because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble
	metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as
	the invisible coat of oxide on aluminium keeps it from burning
	up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or
	scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is
	confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine
	fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always
	recommended a good pair of running shoes.

(John Clark, /Ignition!/, via Derek Lowe)

This is why the idea of using ClF3 as an oxidizer for liquid-fuel
rockets was discarded early on.  It IS produced in fairly large
industrial quantities nowadays -- it's used in the semiconductor
industry to clean oxides off of surfaces.[1]  More Derek Lowe:

	There's a report from the early 1950s ... of a one-ton spill
	of the stuff. It burned its way through a foot of concrete
	floor and chewed up another meter of sand and gravel beneath,
	completing a day that I'm sure no one involved ever
	forgot. That process, I should add, would necessarily have
	been accompanied by copious amounts of horribly toxic and
	corrosive by-products: it's bad enough when your reagent
	ignites wet sand, but the clouds of hot hydrofluoric acid are
	your special door prize if you're foolhardy enough to hang
	around and watch the fireworks.

-GAWollman

[1] Which is to say that it's a more powerful oxidizer than oxygen
itself.  Nasty, nasty stuff.
-- 
Garrett A. Wollman    | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers.         | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

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Thread

Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-08-19 00:48 -0400
  Re: Two Book Recommendations wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-19 03:45 -0400
    Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 13:12 +0000
    Re: Two Book Recommendations graydonish@gmail.com - 2015-08-19 07:23 -0700
      Re: Two Book Recommendations "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2015-08-19 16:40 +0100
      Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 15:51 +0000
      Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-08-20 10:42 +0800
  Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 13:10 +0000
    Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-08-19 12:25 -0400
      Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 16:59 +0000
  Re: Two Book Recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-19 11:47 -0500
    Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 17:01 +0000
    Re: Two Book Recommendations Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2015-08-19 14:01 -0500
      Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 20:08 +0000
      Re: Two Book Recommendations Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-08-19 13:23 -0700
  Re: Two Book Recommendations Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2015-08-21 10:36 -0400
    Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-21 14:57 +0000
    Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-08-21 14:27 -0400
      Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-21 20:01 +0000
    Re: Two Book Recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-21 15:20 -0500
      Re: Two Book Recommendations goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2015-08-22 07:17 +0000
      Re: Two Book Recommendations Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2015-08-22 15:50 -0400
        Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-22 21:10 +0000
          Re: Two Book Recommendations Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2015-08-22 19:23 -0400
            Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-23 00:46 +0000
              Re: Two Book Recommendations Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2015-08-23 10:41 -0400
            Re: Two Book Recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2015-08-24 02:01 +0000
              Re: Two Book Recommendations djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-24 02:18 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 22:24 -0500
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 22:26 -0500
                Re: Two Book Recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2015-08-24 17:23 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-24 19:01 -0500
              Re: Two Book Recommendations William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 12:11 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-24 18:55 -0500
                Re: Two Book Recommendations William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 20:18 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2015-08-25 01:49 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 22:29 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 19:55 -0500
              Re: Two Book Recommendations Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-08-24 18:00 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-20 08:36 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-20 06:20 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-10-20 13:46 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-20 07:33 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-20 09:58 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-20 14:02 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-20 11:34 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-21 03:34 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-10-21 11:45 +0100
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 18:19 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-22 00:07 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-21 22:41 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-22 07:08 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 18:27 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-23 08:16 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-23 08:24 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-23 08:36 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-23 14:50 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-23 17:18 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-26 16:26 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 16:24 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-22 19:46 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 09:30 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-10-22 22:14 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 09:31 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2015-10-23 15:24 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 16:03 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2015-10-23 16:36 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-23 19:38 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-23 22:46 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-24 03:42 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2015-10-24 16:27 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 13:36 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-24 15:24 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-24 16:21 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-25 17:14 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-26 10:51 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-26 12:01 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-26 12:05 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-26 16:42 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-26 19:52 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-27 10:45 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-24 10:51 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-24 20:00 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 23:33 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-24 23:21 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-25 01:07 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-25 17:04 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-24 20:50 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-24 23:21 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-25 14:20 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-26 10:56 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-25 21:50 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-26 16:28 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-26 14:22 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-26 17:32 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-26 14:52 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-26 15:09 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2015-10-27 18:08 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-28 06:19 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-28 06:38 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-28 07:11 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-10-28 14:59 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-28 08:17 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-28 11:47 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-28 09:01 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-10-28 13:26 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-26 18:13 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-27 10:47 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 06:03 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-10-21 16:50 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-10-21 23:11 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-21 11:41 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-10-21 16:03 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-21 13:08 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-20 09:40 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-21 08:13 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-20 18:21 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2015-10-21 00:43 +0000
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-20 18:50 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-21 10:13 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2015-10-21 12:34 +1100
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-21 10:15 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2015-10-21 16:35 +1100
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2015-10-23 15:20 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-24 08:59 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-23 09:17 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-20 10:24 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-20 18:07 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-20 21:20 -0400
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-10-20 08:02 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2015-10-23 02:32 +0100
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2015-10-20 22:59 -0700
              Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-08-25 11:07 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 22:40 -0500
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-08-25 08:06 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-08-26 11:44 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-08-26 08:54 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-26 09:06 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-08-26 09:24 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-08-27 10:25 +0800
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-27 04:35 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-08-24 22:17 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-25 04:34 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-08-25 08:10 -0600
                Re: Two Book Recommendations petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-08-25 07:49 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-08-25 06:27 -0700
        Re: Two Book Recommendations Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-08-25 12:50 -0700
          Re: Two Book Recommendations David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-26 01:17 -0500
            Re: Two Book Recommendations goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2015-08-31 07:31 +0000
              Re: Two Book Recommendations William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-10-20 11:57 -0700
                Re: Two Book Recommendations "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-20 15:14 -0400

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