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Groups > comp.lang.c > #66108

Re: Recursion or loop, design questions

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Recursion or loop, design questions
Date 2015-07-21 15:12 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <molgct$7ao$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (8 earlier) <87oajce0uv.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <d44b6549-d8b3-409d-94d3-f48ac5efeabf@googlegroups.com> <87mvyvc5a8.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <67494740-17db-4055-8206-9e67b5612caa@googlegroups.com> <mobm9d$87o$1@dont-email.me>

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On 17/07/15 21:51, Bartc wrote:
> On 17/07/2015 19:16, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 1:55:36 PM UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> 
>>> I note your careful wording: too hard to know.  Do you think the
>>> average programmer could not learn what a tail call is in a matter
>>> of minutes?
> 
> (Why would they need to?)
> 
>> [Bart] ... You'd also expect
>> a person with such an interest to have an openness and receptiveness
>> to new languages.
> 
> Not necessarily...
> 
>> But he got it wrong. He got it wrong. The point is that functional
>> languages, as far as I'm aware, aren't designed with the difference
>> between tail recursion and normal in mind. They don't make a syntactical
>> distinction, because, as far as correctness is concerned, that
>> doesn't matter.
> 
> I've never properly understood what tail recursion is, and I probably
> still don't. I don't get why people think it's such a big deal. You can
> look at some recursive functions, and say they are use tail recursion or
> they don't, but, so what?

Tail recursion is quite simple - if a function ends in a call to itself,
with no processing done after that call, then it is tail recursive.
(There will usually also be other means to return from the function, to
avoid infinite loops.)

Basically, if you've got the assembly :

foo:
	... // Simple non-recursive code and conditional return

	call foo
	ret

Then you have tail recursion.  The "call foo; ret" can be replaced with
"jmp foo".


Why is tail recursion important?  It's just because it is easy for a
compiler to turn it into an iterative loop for efficiency.  As we saw
from your example, recursive functions may still sometimes be turned
into loops by a smart enough compiler - but if the function is written
as a tail recursion, you can be sure that the transformation is possible.

(See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_call> - the transformation done
by gcc to turn your recursion into iteration is equivalent to the "Tail
recursion modulo cons" described here.)

> 
> It might give you some easy optimisation in a small number of cases (in
> my sort of code, usually in some silly benchmark), but I can't see
> myself getting excited about it. And isn't that a compiler's job anyway?
> 

Usually the best development method (following Heathfield's law) is to
write the code clearly and correctly, and if it is too slow in practice
then you can fiddle with it until it runs faster.  If the recursion is
easily converted to iteration, then gcc (with high enough optimisation
level) or other good compilers can usually do the job, saving you the
effort.

> (Actually, in benchmarks I'd prefer it wasn't optimised, if the purpose
> of the test is to find out how well large numbers of recursive calls are
> handled; you don't want them eliminated!)
>

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Thread

Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 12:49 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 12:03 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 14:15 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 13:49 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:15 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:25 +0100
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:36 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:02 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:48 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-09 09:54 -0400
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 15:08 +0100
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:16 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 15:18 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:24 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:42 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-10 00:57 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:39 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 21:44 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 22:50 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 13:49 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 13:52 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:26 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:28 +0100
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-09 05:28 -0700
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:09 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-09 09:25 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 18:41 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-10 11:52 -0400
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 18:44 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-10 18:52 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 20:34 +0200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-10 11:50 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 20:56 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-10 13:30 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-11 10:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 16:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-12 00:20 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions gordonb.j93iw@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2015-07-11 21:26 -0500
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-09 10:08 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 19:19 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 19:11 +0100
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:28 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 13:41 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:22 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 18:45 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-09 18:05 +0000
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 07:06 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 15:51 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 09:36 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-15 10:49 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-15 13:05 -0500
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 10:28 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 12:41 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-20 21:37 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-24 13:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-24 15:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 12:42 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-24 15:38 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 12:39 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-30 22:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-02 07:09 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-02 14:43 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-03 09:48 -0700
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:23 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Andrew Cooper <amc96@cam.ac.uk> - 2015-07-10 00:52 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-10 01:28 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-07-12 13:20 +0300
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-12 11:39 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 10:28 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 08:17 +1200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 14:46 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 19:27 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-13 21:16 +0000
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-10 08:34 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-10 00:46 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 12:35 +0200
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-10 12:47 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 14:29 +0200
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 06:36 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 07:16 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 14:23 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 15:27 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 19:27 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 15:27 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 08:00 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 15:46 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 16:01 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-12 00:36 +0000
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 13:55 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 14:12 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 19:45 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 14:34 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 15:37 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-16 10:07 +0100
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-16 10:18 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-16 13:35 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-16 21:10 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 13:55 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-17 11:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 11:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-17 20:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 13:48 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 15:12 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-21 10:56 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-21 19:43 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-21 12:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-21 21:17 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 23:58 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-22 20:39 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-24 00:54 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-24 09:06 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-24 08:04 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-24 13:48 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-25 14:02 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 13:41 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 15:41 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-02 21:51 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:20 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-04 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-04 06:02 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 14:03 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 11:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 11:21 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 12:18 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 21:40 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 22:57 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-05 08:45 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 14:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:22 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 14:28 -0700
                Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:35 +0200
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-04 14:45 -0700
                Re: Language "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:55 +0200
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:44 -0700
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 17:18 -0700
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 01:32 -0700
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 09:51 +0100
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 12:55 +0100
                Re: Language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 19:12 +0100
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-06 17:09 +0100
                Re: Language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 15:10 -0700
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-07 09:48 +0100
                Re: Language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 13:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-06 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:32 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-06 11:06 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 11:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-06 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-06 17:59 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 15:54 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:56 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 23:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 09:27 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:09 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:34 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-08 13:00 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 14:22 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 16:12 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-08 17:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 13:34 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 08:38 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 09:31 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 01:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 04:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 20:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-25 23:59 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 15:53 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 19:43 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-25 20:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-27 23:53 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-03 10:04 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 21:34 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 13:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 21:57 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 10:44 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-18 11:00 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-18 05:25 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 14:26 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-18 17:38 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 10:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 21:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 14:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 15:01 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 15:39 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 15:44 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 15:55 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-19 10:58 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 16:26 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 17:23 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 18:04 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 00:03 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-19 13:30 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 08:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 20:59 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-20 07:23 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-19 21:11 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 13:55 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-05 11:22 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 17:22 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 10:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 03:15 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-19 10:36 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 12:45 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 13:05 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 13:09 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 10:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-19 22:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 14:05 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-09 21:22 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-09 16:14 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 05:39 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 01:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-10 21:03 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 03:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:16 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 03:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:45 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-22 14:07 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-22 14:07 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 02:47 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-19 22:23 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 05:01 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 09:55 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-19 23:13 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 10:19 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 17:21 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-20 00:25 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 11:45 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-20 02:34 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-20 10:52 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 05:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 22:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 17:24 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 22:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 21:07 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 02:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-19 10:12 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 16:54 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-20 12:34 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 07:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-27 11:08 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 15:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 14:59 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 08:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:05 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-19 12:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 12:57 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 21:16 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:50 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 09:13 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 15:04 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 12:40 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 16:27 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 14:26 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 09:58 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 15:24 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-18 10:29 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-18 17:32 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 22:58 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:13 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 21:49 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:12 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-20 15:21 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-20 15:23 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:31 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-21 04:08 -0700
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 08:50 -0700
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 18:43 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 18:54 +0200
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-11 13:06 -0400
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 23:45 +0200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-12 17:48 -0400
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 01:27 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 19:39 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 14:51 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 23:51 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 08:04 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-16 09:36 +1200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 10:37 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-21 20:55 +1200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 07:39 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-16 09:41 +1200

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