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Groups > comp.lang.c > #65968

Re: Recursion or loop, design questions

From Bartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Recursion or loop, design questions
Date 2015-07-20 10:52 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <moig97$u00$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <d12kn1F9itpU2@mid.individual.net> <moh7b8$ett$1@dont-email.me> <ad8oqadsi419j450uqaacrm0cv9bi0u129@4ax.com> <mohbi3$r13$1@dont-email.me> <jg7pqatouhldjrpkacej2gprrbt0t4nv2j@4ax.com>

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On 20/07/2015 08:34, Robert Wessel wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 00:25:17 +0100, Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> That sounds easy: I assume a Cobol struct is just a number of fixed
>> length alphanumeric fields. You can quickly get to the low-level binary
>> information that is needed.
>
>
> Ignoring that most of the data types will not map naturally into (say)
> a C version* and that you have some interesting alignment and padding
> issues**.

> Structurally there are interesting union types (fortunately not to
> often used these days) what don't match the normal structure directly.
> Those can obviously be simulated with a union on a bigger scale with
> appropriate monkeying about with offsets.  Although you quickly end up
> with a morass of nested structs and unions.

I assume the analogy here is using Cobol-style data structures to define 
an API. If the information is available, then it is feasible to do, a 
little like writing a specific file format. But what C++ does with OO is 
on a different level.

>> (But even that won't work with some complex libraries such as those from
>> MS - I could never work with COM for example since I simply haven't got
>> a clue where to start (or what it is or whether I need to use it at
>> all!). To take an API, I do need to understand what it can do.)
>
>
> It's actually not *that* hard to call most COM stuff from C, but you
> are going to start by poking your way through vtables.  Someone even
> did a tutorial:
>
> http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/13601/COM-in-plain-C

The author disagrees:

"That's all there is to it?? That was easy!" Hold on. IExample is 
getting closer, but there's much more to it. It's not that easy."

But yeah, I remember going along this route before, and using someone 
else's actual C code as a layer on top of GDI+ or DirectDraw or whatever 
it might have been. I couldn't get it to work and didn't know enough to 
debug it.

> The reason people create relatively straight-forward
> C-like interfaces is that approximately everyone supports that in some
> fashion.  If the creators of some package have neglected to do that
> (or provide some other easy to use interface), that's not the fault of
> OOP, or Cobol, or whatever.

People who design packages tend not to make them simple. In fact they 
seem to think it is a bonus to make them as large and comprehensive as 
possible! They also tend to assume they will be used from the same language.

My APIs tend to be small and very simple.

But what you say is true: when I needed to implement 'tooltips' for a 
GUI, Win32 provided a C API consisting of dozens of functions, macros, 
structs and messages. And even after two days' effort trying, I couldn't 
get it to work. The new C++ version now has dozens of methods, 
constructors, properties and events instead!

The difference is, I can't now spend the two days trying even if I 
wanted to. There's an entry barrier due to the use of C++.

(I later added tooltips myself to my own graphics library. The API 
consisted of a *single* function. It also worked. And it worked for 
*any* button unlike MS' highly restrictive version. That's how you write 
a small and friendly API.)

-- 
Bartc

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Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 12:49 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 12:03 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 14:15 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 13:49 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:15 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:25 +0100
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:36 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:02 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:48 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-09 09:54 -0400
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 15:08 +0100
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:16 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 15:18 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:24 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:42 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-10 00:57 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:39 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 21:44 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 22:50 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 13:49 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 13:52 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:26 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:28 +0100
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-09 05:28 -0700
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:09 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-09 09:25 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 18:41 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-10 11:52 -0400
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 18:44 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-10 18:52 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 20:34 +0200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-10 11:50 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 20:56 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-10 13:30 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-11 10:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 16:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-12 00:20 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions gordonb.j93iw@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2015-07-11 21:26 -0500
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-09 10:08 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 19:19 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 19:11 +0100
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:28 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 13:41 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:22 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 18:45 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-09 18:05 +0000
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 07:06 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 15:51 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 09:36 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-15 10:49 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-15 13:05 -0500
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 10:28 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 12:41 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-20 21:37 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-24 13:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-24 15:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 12:42 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-24 15:38 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 12:39 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-30 22:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-02 07:09 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-02 14:43 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-03 09:48 -0700
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:23 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Andrew Cooper <amc96@cam.ac.uk> - 2015-07-10 00:52 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-10 01:28 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-07-12 13:20 +0300
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-12 11:39 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 10:28 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 08:17 +1200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 14:46 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 19:27 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-13 21:16 +0000
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-10 08:34 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-10 00:46 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 12:35 +0200
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-10 12:47 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 14:29 +0200
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 06:36 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 07:16 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 14:23 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 15:27 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 19:27 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 15:27 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 08:00 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 15:46 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 16:01 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-12 00:36 +0000
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 13:55 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 14:12 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 19:45 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 14:34 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 15:37 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-16 10:07 +0100
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-16 10:18 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-16 13:35 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-16 21:10 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 13:55 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-17 11:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 11:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-17 20:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 13:48 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 15:12 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-21 10:56 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-21 19:43 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-21 12:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-21 21:17 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 23:58 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-22 20:39 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-24 00:54 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-24 09:06 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-24 08:04 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-24 13:48 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-25 14:02 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 13:41 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 15:41 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-02 21:51 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:20 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-04 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-04 06:02 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 14:03 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 11:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 11:21 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 12:18 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 21:40 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 22:57 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-05 08:45 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 14:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:22 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 14:28 -0700
                Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:35 +0200
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-04 14:45 -0700
                Re: Language "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:55 +0200
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:44 -0700
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 17:18 -0700
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 01:32 -0700
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 09:51 +0100
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 12:55 +0100
                Re: Language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 19:12 +0100
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-06 17:09 +0100
                Re: Language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 15:10 -0700
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-07 09:48 +0100
                Re: Language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 13:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-06 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:32 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-06 11:06 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 11:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-06 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-06 17:59 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 15:54 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:56 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 23:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 09:27 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:09 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:34 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-08 13:00 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 14:22 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 16:12 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-08 17:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 13:34 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 08:38 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 09:31 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 01:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 04:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 20:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-25 23:59 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 15:53 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 19:43 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-25 20:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-27 23:53 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-03 10:04 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 21:34 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 13:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 21:57 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 10:44 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-18 11:00 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-18 05:25 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 14:26 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-18 17:38 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 10:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 21:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 14:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 15:01 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 15:39 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 15:44 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 15:55 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-19 10:58 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 16:26 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 17:23 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 18:04 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 00:03 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-19 13:30 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 08:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 20:59 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-20 07:23 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-19 21:11 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 13:55 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-05 11:22 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 17:22 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 10:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 03:15 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-19 10:36 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 12:45 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 13:05 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 13:09 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 10:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-19 22:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 14:05 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-09 21:22 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-09 16:14 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 05:39 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 01:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-10 21:03 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 03:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:16 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 03:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:45 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-22 14:07 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-22 14:07 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 02:47 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-19 22:23 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 05:01 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 09:55 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-19 23:13 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 10:19 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 17:21 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-20 00:25 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 11:45 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-20 02:34 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-20 10:52 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 05:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 22:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 17:24 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 22:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 21:07 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 02:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-19 10:12 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 16:54 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-20 12:34 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 07:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-27 11:08 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 15:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 14:59 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 08:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:05 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-19 12:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 12:57 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 21:16 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:50 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 09:13 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 15:04 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 12:40 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 16:27 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 14:26 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 09:58 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 15:24 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-18 10:29 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-18 17:32 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 22:58 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:13 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 21:49 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:12 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-20 15:21 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-20 15:23 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:31 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-21 04:08 -0700
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 08:50 -0700
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 18:43 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 18:54 +0200
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-11 13:06 -0400
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 23:45 +0200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-12 17:48 -0400
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 01:27 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 19:39 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 14:51 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 23:51 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 08:04 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-16 09:36 +1200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 10:37 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-21 20:55 +1200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 07:39 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-16 09:41 +1200

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