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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #39942

Re: FORTH - How Does It Work?

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: FORTH - How Does It Work?
Date 2015-06-22 00:13 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mm7csd$cr3$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <521c9f1f-6d68-498f-bf3b-d7e29600d06d@googlegroups.com> <55854b59$0$2943$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl> <-rWdncyOYZAEMhjInZ2dnUU7-LOdnZ2d@supernews.com> <402d5a33-0ad3-431f-9b60-fa23b1b62875@googlegroups.com> <mm74uv$cgd$1@dont-email.me>

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Alex McDonald wrote:

> on 21/06/2015 03:24:28, hugh wrote:
> 
>> 
>> During the thread, there was a discussion of UTF-8 and UTF-16.
>> Somewhat hum orously (to me), this lengthy procession of
>> pseudo-intellectual babble neve r touched on the basic problem: there
>> is no standard way to write TOUPPER a nd TOLOWER in UTF-x and hence
>> there is no way to use these formats in Forth that is
>> case-insensitive.
>> 
> 
> There is a standard way to upper and lower case, and it's not based on
> UTF; it's based on case folding Unicode code points (although converting
> to UTF-16 or UTF-32 can provide adequate case folding).
> http://www.unicode.org/faq/casemap_charprop.html

Actually, the Rational for XChar does deal (in a Taoist way, pointing to the 
minimal solution) with that problem:

"Many Forth systems today are case insensitive, to accept lower case 
standard words. It is sufficient to be case insensitive for the ASCII subset 
to make this work — this saves a large code mapping table for comparison of 
other symbols. Case is mostly an issue of European languages (Latin, Greek, 
and Cyrillic), but similar issues exist between traditional and simplified 
Chinese (finally being dealt with by Unihan), and between different Latin 
code pages in the Universal Character Set (UCS), e.g., full width vs. normal 
half width Latin letters."

The actual problem of a case insensitve Forth (which today most are) is that 
standard Forth words are all written in uppercase by the standard, but we 
want to write them in lower case, sometimes mixed case (e.g. control 
structures in caps, the rest lower case).  These words all use only the 
ASCII subset.  Problem solved.

If you look at the reason why you do something, you can do it much cheaper 
than when you just implement an overgeneralized solution to everything.  Of 
course you can use accent and unihan normalization followed by case-folding 
of Unicode to do your case-insensitive compare, but it is not required by 
the standard, as this is IMHO overengineering.  It's not forbidden, either.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Thread

FORTH - How Does It Work? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-04 09:44 -0700
  FORTH - How Does It Work? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-04 10:21 -0700
    Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-04 11:00 -0700
      Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-05 03:03 -0700
      Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-05 11:31 +0000
    Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-05 01:31 -0700
      Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-05 08:49 +0000
      Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-05-05 11:16 +0200
      Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-05 02:33 -0700
  Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-04 08:49 -1000
    Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-04 19:13 +0000
      Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-04 20:35 +0100
        Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-04 10:43 -1000
        Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-05 08:52 +0000
          Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-05 10:54 +0100
            Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-05 10:56 +0100
      Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-05-04 20:01 -0400
        Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-04 17:23 -0700
        Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-04 17:34 -0700
          Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-05 00:25 -0700
            Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-05-05 12:41 +0200
          Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-05-05 03:31 -0400
            Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-05 08:41 +0100
        Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-05 11:36 +0000
    Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-05-07 11:26 +1000
      Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-06 16:46 -1000
        Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-07 00:06 -0700
        Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-05-10 12:57 +1000
          Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-09 21:36 -0700
          Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-09 18:36 -1000
            Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-09 22:09 -0700
              Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-05-10 13:38 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-05-10 14:23 -0500
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-10 20:51 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-05-11 01:18 +0200
                Apology to Walter Banks - was [Re: FORTH - How Does It Work?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-05-10 23:09 -0500
                Re: Apology to Walter Banks - was [Re: FORTH - How Does It Work?] Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-05-11 07:24 -0400
                Re: Apology to Walter Banks - was [Re: FORTH - How Does It Work?] rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 11:34 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-10 19:18 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-05-11 07:50 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? beeflo <beeflobill@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 09:37 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-11 11:32 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 05:21 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-12 14:08 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-12 14:52 +0000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-12 17:18 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-05-13 08:41 +0200
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-13 08:07 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-13 19:29 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 08:10 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-12 17:13 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-12 09:33 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-12 15:38 +0000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-12 21:51 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-12 16:05 +0000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-14 17:26 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? bettilyona@gmail.com - 2015-06-02 10:21 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-02 20:39 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? bettilyona@gmail.com - 2015-06-08 13:14 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 13:15 +0200
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-20 14:37 +0000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-20 08:23 -1000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-20 19:24 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2015-06-21 12:30 +0200
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-21 20:58 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-22 00:13 +0200
            Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-05-11 12:10 +1000
              Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 11:35 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-11 16:52 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-11 08:12 -1000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-11 12:37 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-05-11 15:59 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-11 21:34 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 16:42 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-11 21:52 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-11 14:55 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-12 16:22 +0000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-12 22:42 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-13 11:18 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-25 15:04 +0000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 20:38 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-11 14:31 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-05-12 07:06 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-11 21:30 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-11 14:52 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 20:40 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-12 03:38 +0200
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 22:10 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-11 20:25 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 01:13 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-12 11:03 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-12 16:08 +0200
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-12 14:04 +0000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-11 19:08 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 22:46 -0400
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-05-14 18:30 +1000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-13 22:55 -1000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-05-16 05:08 +1000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-15 09:54 -1000
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-20 13:59 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-14 10:40 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 03:12 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-14 12:03 +0100
            Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-10 22:09 -0700
              Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-11 10:12 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-11 18:57 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-11 11:48 -0700
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-11 20:28 +0100
                Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-12 21:28 -0700
        Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 11:29 -0400
  Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? Ching-Tang Tseng <ilikeforth@gmail.com> - 2015-05-04 19:40 -0700
  Re: FORTH - How Does It Work? tthomas@duelcraft2.com - 2015-05-08 16:22 -0700

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