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Re: A Note on Readability

From Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: A Note on Readability
Date 2015-05-26 18:16 +0100
Organization go, ion artisan!
Message-ID <mk29n7$mrf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (17 earlier) <ef29524a-cc20-414d-8086-486801978f48@googlegroups.com> <87iobhpwdd.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <cc35358c-9abe-4b0c-b30d-f6c2660c52b7@googlegroups.com> <87bnh8o234.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <c50a33a2-0dc7-43c0-aec9-03db5aa1a5e5@googlegroups.com>

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On 26/05/15 17:58, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 1:05:13 PM UTC-7, Keith Thompson wrote:
<snip>
>>
>>     All predefined macro names shall begin with a leading underscore
>>     followed by an uppercase letter or a second underscore.
>>
>> IMNSHO that clearly implies that compilers are permitted to predefine
>> macros other than the 5 standard ones.  If that were not the intent,
>> then that sentence would be meaningless.  Do you have a different
>> interpretation?
>
> Yes. I read that differently. This is an extreme case of language
> lawyering. But I doubt that SCOTUS will interested in resolving it.

That is actually a very, very mild case of language lawyering. This 
newsgroup has carried a great many discussions far more involved than 
that one.

> However I admit that pre-defined macros would be good to have as a tool.

The point is that there has to be a namespace separation between the 
implementation and your code. If you tread on implementation namespace, 
you run the risk of a conflict either with your current implementation 
or on some implementation to which you later port the code.

The namespace rules are not particularly onerous for the most part, and 
it's reasonably easy to avoid them without having to jump through too 
many hoops.

> I think you have stated your opinon that I could start my code with
>
>     _X:
>
> and do whatever I want thereafter - because everything is now undefined.
> You really mean that?

If your code doesn't conform to the C Standard, the C Standard imposes 
no requirements on the implementation. In other words, your compiler 
could generate any old junk instead of the executable image you wished 
it to generate, and you'd have no non-conformance claim against the 
vendor. In practice, the implementation will almost certainly do the 
best it can to honour your intent but, when you tread on implementation 
namespace, it ceases to become clear what your intent actually *is* (not 
to you - obviously *you* know what you want - but to the compiler).

The cost of staying out of implementation namespace is trivially low. 
The cost of not doing so can be arbitrarily high. It's a no-brainer.

<snip>

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-06 18:54 -0700
  A Note on Readability asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-05-06 23:08 -0700
    Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-07 07:34 +0100
      Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-07 12:22 -0700
        Re: A Note on Readability raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-05-17 10:50 +0000
          Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-17 09:40 -0700
            Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-17 18:06 +0100
              Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 10:38 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 14:07 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-19 10:07 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-19 11:23 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-20 08:41 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-05-20 09:03 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 12:09 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 09:08 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-20 17:15 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 12:10 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 08:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-21 17:33 +0000
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 09:47 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 12:08 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-20 13:43 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-20 10:59 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 18:05 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-20 17:36 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 22:12 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-20 20:34 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-21 04:39 +0000
                Re: A Note on Readability Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-21 17:41 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 01:14 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 09:26 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-21 10:33 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 09:42 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-22 11:53 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 10:01 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-23 14:53 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 09:18 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-24 13:13 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 09:38 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-25 12:40 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 10:56 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-26 12:35 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 10:08 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-27 11:07 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-27 20:17 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 09:56 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-25 13:05 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 09:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-26 18:16 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 10:55 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-26 12:11 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-26 12:01 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 09:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-27 18:11 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-28 12:11 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-28 12:55 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 10:08 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-01 18:54 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-10 11:29 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 09:06 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 13:42 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 09:20 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-12 11:24 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 08:48 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 12:38 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 10:34 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 14:43 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 12:18 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 15:27 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 08:45 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-14 09:05 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 09:41 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-14 10:26 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 19:59 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-14 12:25 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 13:46 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 08:33 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 11:17 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-13 21:06 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 22:38 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-15 08:19 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 09:10 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 11:00 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 08:11 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-27 10:57 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 09:51 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-24 13:36 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 10:00 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-25 13:05 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-24 16:43 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 09:57 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-24 13:37 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 10:14 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-25 13:11 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 10:26 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-26 18:38 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-26 12:24 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 10:06 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-27 11:05 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 10:38 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-24 07:01 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 09:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-25 00:45 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-10 11:09 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 09:04 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-21 10:36 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 09:56 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-22 12:16 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-22 14:14 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 09:49 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-22 11:55 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-22 11:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-20 10:26 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-18 11:08 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-19 10:09 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-18 20:40 +0100
            Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-17 14:34 -0400
              Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 10:40 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-18 11:18 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 14:33 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-18 20:44 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 16:07 -0400

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