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Groups > comp.lang.c > #62193

Re: A Note on Readability

From James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: A Note on Readability
Date 2015-05-17 14:34 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mjamt6$sm3$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <0f9297b6-2d4c-4d12-8e97-470027248f72@googlegroups.com> <mif10b$sum$1@dont-email.me> <85343d47-257a-4403-9672-40991134ba13@googlegroups.com> <55587201.6548218@news.xs4all.nl> <67b5daac-4378-458c-a6d0-fbf4e20d8340@googlegroups.com>

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On 05/17/2015 12:40 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 3:51:21 AM UTC-7, Richard Bos wrote:
...
>> If GTK+ is meant to be part of the implementation, that's allowed. If
>> it's meant to be treated as a normal user library, it's not.
>> (Some identifiers starting with _ are allowed in some circumstances, but
>> the code in question used _ followed by a capital letter, which is
>> reserved for the implementation in all cases. And anyway, it's better to
>> err on the safe side, usually.)
>>
>> Richard
> 
> You have set of rules you imagine I should follow. ...

Whether or not you follow them is up to you. If you wish your code to
have defined behavior, you should follow them. If you don't care what
your program does, then you should feel free to ignore them.

> ... I don't think they
> are part of the C language.

Technically, you're correct, but I reach that conclusion only by being
pedantic: those rules are not part of the C language, they merely
describe requirements for correct use of that language. They are part of
the C standard. Specifically, section 7.1.3:

> 1 Each header declares or defines all identifiers listed in its associated subclause, and
> optionally declares or defines identifiers listed in its associated future library directions
> subclause and identifiers which are always reserved either for any use or for use as file
> scope identifiers.
> — All identifiers that begin with an underscore and either an uppercase letter or another
> underscore are always reserved for any use.
> — All identifiers that begin with an underscore are always reserved for use as identifiers
> with file scope in both the ordinary and tag name spaces.
> — Each macro name in any of the following subclauses (including the future library
> directions) is reserved for use as specified if any of its associated headers is included;
> unless explicitly stated otherwise (see 7.1.4).
> — All identifiers with external linkage in any of the following subclauses (including the
> future library directions) and errno are always reserved for use as identifiers with
> external linkage.184)
> — Each identifier with file scope listed in any of the following subclauses (including the
> future library directions) is reserved for use as a macro name and as an identifier with
> file scope in the same name space if any of its associated headers is included.
>
> 2 No other identifiers are reserved. If the program declares or defines an identifier in a
> context in which it is reserved (other than as allowed by 7.1.4), or defines a reserved
> identifier as a macro name, the behavior is undefined.

Note, in particular, those last three words.

The reason why some identifiers are reserved is so that implementations
can use them for their own purposes. The reason the behavior is
undefined, is that if the implementation does use of one those
identifiers for some purpose, and a developer tries to use the same
identifier for a conflicting purpose, something is likely to go wrong.
This clause gives implementations permission to let those things go
wrong. Such code would not be strictly conforming, and if something does
go wrong, the author is at fault.

It works the other way, too. Identifiers that are NOT reserved to the
implementation are identifiers that you are free to use in your own
code. If an implementation uses an identifier in a context where it is
NOT reserved, and a developer uses the same name for a conflicting
purpose, something is likely to go wrong. Such an implementation would
be non-conforming, and if something does go wrong, the implementor is at
fault.
-- 
James Kuyper

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Thread

A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-06 18:54 -0700
  A Note on Readability asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-05-06 23:08 -0700
    Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-07 07:34 +0100
      Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-07 12:22 -0700
        Re: A Note on Readability raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-05-17 10:50 +0000
          Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-17 09:40 -0700
            Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-17 18:06 +0100
              Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 10:38 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 14:07 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-19 10:07 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-19 11:23 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-20 08:41 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-05-20 09:03 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 12:09 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 09:08 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-20 17:15 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 12:10 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 08:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-21 17:33 +0000
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 09:47 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 12:08 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-20 13:43 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-20 10:59 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 18:05 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-20 17:36 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-20 22:12 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-20 20:34 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-21 04:39 +0000
                Re: A Note on Readability Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-21 17:41 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 01:14 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 09:26 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-21 10:33 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 09:42 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-22 11:53 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 10:01 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-23 14:53 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 09:18 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-24 13:13 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 09:38 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-25 12:40 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 10:56 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-26 12:35 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 10:08 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-27 11:07 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-27 20:17 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 09:56 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-25 13:05 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 09:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-26 18:16 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 10:55 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-26 12:11 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-26 12:01 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 09:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-27 18:11 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-28 12:11 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-28 12:55 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 10:08 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-01 18:54 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-10 11:29 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 09:06 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 13:42 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 09:20 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-12 11:24 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 08:48 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 12:38 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 10:34 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 14:43 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 12:18 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 15:27 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 08:45 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-14 09:05 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 09:41 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-14 10:26 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 19:59 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-14 12:25 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 13:46 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 08:33 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 11:17 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-13 21:06 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 22:38 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-15 08:19 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 09:10 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 11:00 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 08:11 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-27 10:57 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 09:51 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-24 13:36 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 10:00 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-25 13:05 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-24 16:43 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 09:57 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-24 13:37 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-25 10:14 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-25 13:11 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 10:26 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-26 18:38 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-26 12:24 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-27 10:06 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-27 11:05 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-26 10:38 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-24 07:01 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-24 09:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-25 00:45 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-10 11:09 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-21 09:04 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-21 10:36 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-22 09:56 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-22 12:16 -0500
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-22 14:14 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-23 09:49 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-22 11:55 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-22 11:58 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-20 10:26 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-18 11:08 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-19 10:09 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-18 20:40 +0100
            Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-17 14:34 -0400
              Re: A Note on Readability David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-18 10:40 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-18 11:18 -0700
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 14:33 -0400
                Re: A Note on Readability Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-18 20:44 +0100
                Re: A Note on Readability James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-05-18 16:07 -0400

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