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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #38668

Re: SET-COMPILER

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: SET-COMPILER
Date 2015-04-28 03:22 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mhmnav$uk1$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <54c266b4-17d8-4d0d-adc6-8b7ab0bcc0f4@googlegroups.com> <2015Apr27.165232@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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Anton Ertl wrote:
> Now Bernd tells me that I should not worry, that nobody will use the
> xts of words like FOO in these contexts.  However, given the immense
> creativity of Forth programmers in exploiting various aspects of Forth
> systems, I don't find this at all reassuring.

One reason why this is unlikely is that most OOF systems use something like 
M:, :M, or a context-sensitive : to define methods, and therefore, these xts 
are not arbitary xts.  IIRC, especially mini-oof and mini-oof2 allow 
arbitary xts to be assigned to methods, because it deliberately does not 
have a M: (would cost another line of code or two ;-).

So maybe that's a dangerous idea.  Most OOFs don't follow this dangerous 
part, which makes the impact of SET-COMPILER much lower.

BTW: Many OOF systems (as Alex McDonald described it) have a number of 
parsing state-smart words now, which are problematic to tick, anyways.  
There's a lot of risk with using those; dot parser recognizer could help, 
but at the cost of different syntax.

The next reason why this is unlikely is that these methods are user-defined 
words, not system words.  Or at least only simple system words.  mini-oof or 
mini-oof2 stubs probably get a ' DROP or ' 2DROP to clean up input 
parameters, stub flag returns a ' TRUE or ' FALSE.  Would you really 
instantiate a method with S" or TO?

Last: For sure, people do make creative use of the tools they get by a Forth 
systems (standard and non-standard tools).  And there's no policing.  That's 
fine, that's part of the Forth culture, you don't just get a two-edged 
sword, you get a bag of ninja throwing stars, too, they are sharp on all 10 
sides.  That however means, that once you have a SET-COMPILER for 
optimization purposes, people will use it for other purposes, too.  This 
can't be avoided.

There's also no point in discussing whether SET-COMPILER shall be banned: We 
might not make it standard, but it will continue to exist as non-standard 
feature.  You may convince Stephen to make a dual-xt S" and TO, but you 
won't convince him to take SET-COMPILER out.  So that means people who use 
VFX can use SET-COMPILER to create words which don't work as methods of 
mini-oof.  So what?

I remember Andrew Haley's response to recognizers.  He thought they were a 
way too powerful tool, because with the recognizer proposal, the user can 
alter the complete outer interpreter.  It can become a completely different 
language.

IMHO, SET-COMPILER is a much smaller change to Forth.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Thread

SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-04-27 01:34 -0700
  Re: SET-COMPILER stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-27 14:52 +0000
    Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-27 21:17 +0200
    Re: SET-COMPILER hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-28 09:41 -0700
  Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-27 16:53 +0100
    Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-27 17:02 +0100
      Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-04-27 10:23 -0700
    Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-04-27 10:02 -0700
      Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-01 17:15 +0000
        Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-01 23:38 +0200
  Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-27 14:52 +0000
    Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-27 17:09 +0100
      Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-27 16:54 +0000
        Re: SET-COMPILER stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-28 09:11 +0000
          Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-04-28 04:28 -0700
            Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-04-29 13:49 -0700
              Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-30 00:13 +0200
              Re: SET-COMPILER stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-30 06:32 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-04-30 05:22 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-30 15:27 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-30 19:16 +0100
                Re: SET-COMPILER stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-30 21:08 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-30 23:05 +0100
                Re: SET-COMPILER hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-30 15:47 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-01 12:29 +0100
                Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 15:25 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-30 17:07 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-01 02:40 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-05-01 10:24 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-02 01:32 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 16:27 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-03 08:36 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-04 16:44 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 15:37 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-01 01:33 +0200
                Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-01 03:15 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-01 12:47 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-01 10:29 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-01 20:32 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 15:51 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 15:29 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 14:59 +0000
              Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-04 16:11 +0000
          Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 12:04 +0000
    Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-28 03:22 +0200
      Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 11:09 +0000
        Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-02 12:30 +0000
          Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 16:58 +0000
        Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-02 20:42 +0200
          Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-04 16:28 +0000
          Re: SET-COMPILER Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-06 04:14 -0700
    Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-04-27 23:57 -0700
      Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 11:41 +0000
        Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-02 12:51 +0000
          Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 17:00 +0000
            Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-03 11:19 +0100
              Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-03 07:30 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-05-03 21:45 +0200
                Re: SET-COMPILER Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-05-03 21:48 +0200
                Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-05 22:03 +0100
                Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-05 22:56 +0000
                PREFIX JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-06 02:30 -0700
                Re: PREFIX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-06 12:23 +0000
                Re: PREFIX "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-06 16:44 +0100
                Re: PREFIX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-06 16:03 +0000
                Re: PREFIX "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-06 17:40 +0100
                Re: PREFIX albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-06 19:44 +0000
                Re: PREFIX Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-06 22:05 +0200
                Re: PREFIX Bernd Linsel <bl1@gmx.com> - 2015-05-07 04:23 +0200
                Re: PREFIX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-08 11:48 +0000
                Re: PREFIX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-08 12:04 +0000
                Re: PREFIX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-08 11:55 +0000
                Re: PREFIX "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-06 14:20 +0100
                Re: PREFIX albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-06 19:41 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-06 12:29 +0000
                Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-06 15:07 +0100
                Re: SET-COMPILER Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-05-09 03:02 -0700
                Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-09 17:23 +0100
                Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-11 08:07 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-11 11:20 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 10:05 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-12 18:34 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-05-12 12:07 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-12 22:11 +0200
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-12 21:35 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-13 01:31 +0200
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-13 16:20 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 12:20 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-13 22:24 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-14 11:26 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:00 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-14 08:06 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-14 17:21 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:31 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-14 19:41 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:49 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-15 09:41 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-15 12:19 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-15 14:42 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-15 10:37 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-15 23:00 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-16 13:52 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-16 19:24 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 13:26 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-05-17 00:27 +0200
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-17 10:03 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-17 23:25 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-15 10:02 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-15 12:35 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-15 15:33 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-15 14:01 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-15 13:14 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-13 17:07 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-14 03:27 +0200
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-13 19:23 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-14 01:08 -0700
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-13 14:30 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-14 03:40 +0200
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-15 13:26 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-12 21:33 +0100
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-13 10:36 +0000
                Re: Recognizer RfD was Re: SET-COMPILER anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-13 16:06 +0000
              Re: SET-COMPILER Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-03 20:38 +0200

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