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Re: faster than c

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On 24/04/2015 12:45, Öö Tiib wrote:


> If to imagine starting from scratch a totally separate language then
> I would (purely personal preferences) suggest to:
> * make everything implicitly immutable after first initialization.
> It would considerably shorten my C++ code since I seem to prefer immutability where possible.
> * make developer to indicate mutability with keyword (like 'mutable').
> Mutability seems to be the special case in my own code that I feel
> deserves more clear indication.

Would this be for multi-valued types such as arrays and structs, or also 
primitives such as ints?

In languages such as Python mutability means being able to modify part 
of an object, but types such as int can't be modified, only replaced 
completely by assignment.

With something like an array, then sometimes the set-up can be 
elaborate, requiring normal mutability while it's going on, and then 
used as a read-only table elsewhere. Or it's mutable in some places and 
not in others. This is difficult to express as a one-time attribute in 
the source code.

(With Python, I think mutability can't change, so strings are never 
mutable, but lists always are. But then in Python, nearly everywhere is 
dynamic; you can't change a character in a string, but /can/ take the 
name of that string variable and assign a function to it!)

> * indicate what has been planned to be compile-time known constant
> with keyword (can be 'const' like you suggested). It may add
> semantic freedom (template argument, case label or array index) and
> be needed for optimizations but more important effect for me is that
> it must be is diagnosed and ran during compiling. Lot of defects will
> fail fast.

I agree. This is very, very simple language feature that people just 
don't seem to want in C, instead preferring all sorts of complicated or 
limited alternatives.

-- 
Bartc

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Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-15 15:23 -0700
  Re: faster than c Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-16 10:02 -0500
    Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-17 10:58 -0700
      Re: faster than c Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-18 08:26 +1200
        Re: faster than c Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-17 13:51 -0700
          Re: faster than c Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-18 11:24 +1200
            Re: faster than c Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-18 12:11 -0700
            Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-19 08:29 -0700
        Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 13:08 +0200
          Re: faster than c Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-18 23:33 +1200
            Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 14:19 +0200
          Re: faster than c raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 14:43 +0000
          Re: faster than c Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-19 13:46 -0700
            Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-19 23:33 +0200
              Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 10:25 -0700
                Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 00:37 +0200
                Re: faster than c Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-23 00:25 -0700
                Re: faster than c Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-23 19:36 +1200
                Re: faster than c Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-23 09:10 -0700
                Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-24 09:19 +0200
                Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 13:41 +0200
                Re: faster than c Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-23 10:36 -0700
                Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-24 09:25 +0200
                Re: faster than c Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-24 04:45 -0700
                Re: faster than c Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-24 13:36 +0100
                Re: faster than c Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-27 06:16 -0700
                Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-24 14:44 +0200
                Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-24 07:10 -0700
                Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-24 07:03 -0700
                Re: faster than c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-24 16:22 +0200
        Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-19 08:18 -0700
      Re: faster than c Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 16:58 -0500
        Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-19 09:21 -0700
          Re: faster than c Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 12:51 -0500
            Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 10:47 -0700
              Re: faster than c Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 17:20 -0500
                Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-24 07:51 -0700
  Re: faster than c Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-04-17 23:10 +0000
    Re: faster than c raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 14:46 +0000
    Re: faster than c Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-19 08:56 -0700

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