Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.c > #60518

Re: Problems with va_list & friends...

From Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Problems with va_list & friends...
Date 2015-04-20 07:49 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <mh2s8v$876$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <mgq9ov$2qo$1@dont-email.me> <mgskj3$2p8$1@dont-email.me> <mh0caf$t34$1@dont-email.me> <mh0lrf$s0$1@dont-email.me> <mh1afq$kkl$1@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw

James Kuyper wrote:
> On 04/19/2015 12:47 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 18/04/15 05:01, Les Cargill wrote:
>>>> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> The gcc compiler, however, is a different kettle of bananas, and it does
>>>>> sometimes issue warnings for code that /could/ be a problem in different
>>>>> circumstances but which I happen to know is /not/ a problem in this
>>>>> particular case,
>>>>
>>>> ... and so I think you maybe oughta buck up and fix it.
>>>
>>> Fix what? Fix the code?
>>
>> The warniong.
>
> Why? It's correctly identifying a situation as justifying a closer look
> by the developer. If that closer look indicates that there's no actual
> problem, there doesn't have to be anything wrong with the warning
> message (thought there could be). If the existence of a problem that
> needs to be solved were certain, it should have been an error message,
> not a warning message.
>
>>> Not broken.
>>
>> If it has a warning, and "warnings mean it's broken" then it's broke.
>
> The logic is impeccable, but the conclusion is wrong because the second
> premise which is false. So th thing which needs fixing is the second
> premise.
>
>>> Fix the comment? Done. Fix gcc? I
>>> don't think that's broken either. It's giving a warning that is sensible
>>> as a warning but not sensible as an error. The problem, if there is a
>>> problem, is in the use of -Werror, so don't use that.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's another fine solution, but shipping code with warnings isn't the
>> best of all possible practice.
>
> It's better practice than writing bad code to avoid a warning about good
> code.
>
>>>>> where I've seen the warning, where I've thought it
>>>>> through all over again precisely /because/ of the warning (which is why
>>>>> I want the warning!), and I've decided to press ahead anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Understood. But maybe you missed something.
>>>
>>> Sure, that's possible. But maybe you missed something when you were
>>> 'fixing' the code to sidestep -Werror, something that meant you were no
>>> longer coding the solution you were supposed to be coding. Of *course*
>>> we might have missed something. That's why we do testing.
>>>
>>
>> If fixing a warning breaks things, you have a much bigger problem.
>
> Being less than divinely infallible might be considered a big problem
> from some points of view, but to me it seems an ordinary fact of the
> human condition. And being divinely infallible is the only way I'm
> familiar with for avoiding all possibility of breaking one thing when
> you fix something else. It's also the only sense in which your comment
> "But maybe you missed something" is relevant.
>
>> And your tests should show it up if you *do* break something.
>
> Ideally, yes, but in the same sense that you said "you might have missed
> something while determining whether or not a given warning is applicable
> to a given piece of code, "you might have missed something" when putting
> together your tests.
>
> ...
>> manage to step on something and cause a warning, you'd fix it.
>>
>> Right?
>
> If, by "step on something" you mean "insert a defect" - sure.

Yes.

> However,
> if by "step on something" you mean "write perfectly good code that
> happens to trigger a warning message", then the answer is "No".'
>

Somehow, you're never gonna convince me that code that generates a 
warning is "perfectly good" because I have certain ideas about the 
meaning of the word "perfect".


>> So now we have a legacy code base, with warnings-as-technical-debt.
>> If there's anyway to do it in a reasonable fashion, it's nice
>> to get rid of that technical debt. By the same reasoning above.
>>
>> If you can't, you just can't, but please accept that even
>> though the compiler may be overzealous, this is dysfunctional behavior.
>
> I consider it more dysfunctional to write bad code to avoid triggering a
> warning message.
>


The rule "your code should have no warnings" is a normative, process 
based one. If you have such a rule to work with, then it's not "bad
code" to fix the warning.

If you make a change to fix a warning, it should not affect the object 
code output in any meaningful way. Indeed, you should be able to 
demonstrate that by inspection of the object/assembly code.

Here's the critical detail - if it *does* affect the generated code,
then you have a deeper problem to deal with. If we're using risk as a 
steering principle, then warnings are not something you can easily
discard.

> ...
>>> Am I worried about turning good code into worse code just as a sop to
>>> the compiler? Sure.
>>>
>>
>> I just don't buy the essential "worse is better" argument you're
>> making ( or gently accusing me of making ).
>
> He's making no such argument. He's saying that code which avoids
> triggering a warning message can sometimes be worse than code which
> doesn't.

And I remain skeptical of that idea. That code may be "simpler" -
lacking a cast or something - but I don't see how that's necessarily
better.

> That becomes a "worse is better" argument only if you take it
> as a matter of dogma (or perhaps, as a matter of definition), that code
> which triggers a warning message can always be made better by a re-write
> which avoids the warning.

But such dogma exists. It's used as an operating principle in places.

What I called a "zero warnings policy" is just such dogma.

> Such a dogma  (or definition) only makes sense if you have more faith in
> the infallibility of compiler warnings than I do, and if you also
> believe that the compiler writers who have managed to determine
> infallibly that a given piece of code is defective, might for some
> reason chose to issue a warning message rather than the error message
> that would seem more appropriate when such certainty is justified. It's
> hard for me to imagine that anyone who who could make such a stupid
> mistake in determining which type of message to issue, could be
> infallibly correct about he problem they think justifies issuing it.
>

None of that is necessary. If there's a shop expectation that there 
won't be warnings, then it is what it is. It's more a sop to the 
expectation of team members than to anything else.

You're requiring everyone to know that this warning is a "good
warning" from now until the code base falls out of use.

-- 
Les Cargill

Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-04-16 13:08 +0200
  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-16 12:14 -0500
    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-16 17:18 +0000
    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 18:43 +0100
      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-16 21:03 -0500
        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-16 23:38 -0400
        Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-17 07:39 +0100
          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-17 13:31 -0500
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-17 14:46 -0400
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 11:46 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-18 15:35 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 10:57 -0700
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-19 11:58 +0100
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 10:50 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 17:55 +0100
          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-17 23:01 -0500
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 00:24 -0500
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-18 07:50 -0400
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 11:56 -0700
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-19 14:59 +0100
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-19 11:47 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-19 18:44 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-19 18:34 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 01:42 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 08:14 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 10:30 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 13:56 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Ian Pilcher <arequipeno@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 18:39 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-23 12:37 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-23 20:25 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-24 07:58 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-24 12:58 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-24 22:13 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-28 13:05 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-30 08:40 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-01 08:40 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-03 11:42 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-04 17:43 +1200
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-04 07:34 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-05-08 17:12 +0300
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-10 07:40 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-05-04 08:49 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-04 12:23 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-20 07:49 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 14:27 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 09:39 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 17:48 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 15:58 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 22:25 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 13:22 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 11:15 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 15:02 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 12:51 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 21:17 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-20 16:09 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 00:33 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 16:26 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 15:46 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-20 16:17 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-21 07:43 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 08:06 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-04-22 21:55 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 20:04 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 13:22 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 21:42 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 16:58 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 01:16 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-04-21 02:19 +0200
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-20 23:14 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-21 11:47 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-22 00:13 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 08:36 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-22 03:15 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 11:52 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2015-04-22 09:04 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 17:14 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-20 15:24 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-21 00:24 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-21 09:33 +0000
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-21 11:57 +0000
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-21 10:22 -0500
                The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-21 15:38 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-04-21 15:58 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-21 18:09 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-04-21 17:42 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:47 +0200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-22 20:56 +1200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2015-04-22 03:53 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 11:01 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-23 08:17 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 10:21 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 11:17 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 09:59 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 18:48 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 14:35 -0500
                Re: The Metric system Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 21:22 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 09:58 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-25 12:33 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 12:18 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-25 13:51 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-25 16:34 +0200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-25 17:00 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-25 16:59 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-28 16:04 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-30 04:22 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 09:27 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 12:01 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-30 13:38 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-25 16:36 +0200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-26 08:20 +1200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Bill Davy" <Bill@SynectixLtd.com> - 2015-04-25 21:33 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-26 12:07 +0200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-26 14:22 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-26 15:44 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 13:11 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 17:05 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 18:30 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 17:35 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 19:15 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-23 11:05 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-23 12:54 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-23 14:12 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-23 15:50 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-23 16:43 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-23 18:09 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-04-22 13:15 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-22 19:17 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 20:48 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-04-23 08:11 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-23 12:58 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-23 14:13 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:08 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-22 17:15 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 09:18 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-25 13:02 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-26 14:26 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-05-03 11:48 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-05 18:20 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-05 12:43 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 11:32 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Bill Davy" <Bill@SynectixLtd.com> - 2015-04-22 14:31 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-23 07:51 +1200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) "Bill Davy" <Bill@SynectixLtd.com> - 2015-04-23 08:05 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:10 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-26 09:27 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-26 10:55 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-26 07:19 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-26 12:59 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-28 07:07 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-28 09:51 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2015-04-28 08:04 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-28 16:19 +0100
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-04-28 19:15 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-28 16:06 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2015-04-28 09:39 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-28 16:51 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2015-04-29 05:08 -0700
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-29 13:47 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-28 13:03 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-05-10 12:24 -0400
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-04-21 18:12 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-04-21 19:34 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-21 12:46 -0500
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-22 07:42 +1200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-04-21 20:13 +0000
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:52 +0200
                Re: The Metric system (Was: Problems with va_list & friends...) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 09:18 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-21 22:25 +0000
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-23 15:59 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-23 11:51 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-23 11:26 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 16:15 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 17:23 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 13:17 -0400
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-20 15:26 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-20 16:15 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-04-21 00:42 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 11:15 -0700
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 21:50 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-20 17:04 -0400
          Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 08:22 -0700
            Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-19 18:23 +0100
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-19 13:22 -0700
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-19 21:51 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 10:01 +0100
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 05:08 -0500
                Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 11:37 +0100
              Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-23 20:13 -0700
    Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2015-04-18 09:15 +0200
      Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 12:13 -0700
  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-16 23:40 -0400
  Re: Problems with va_list & friends... Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 08:11 -0700

csiph-web