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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #212468

Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC]

From Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC]
Date 2020-07-31 21:16 -0400
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <mddv9i3cgiv.fsf_-_@panix5.panix.com> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <L_AUG.195289$AN2.192375@fx46.iad> <1922456568.617821872.532416.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <AuEUG.195294$AN2.162013@fx46.iad> <1836069261.617827817.688943.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <07ce1231-6202-43d2-bfad-d21d3d304fddo@googlegroups.com>

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Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> writes:

> In retrospect, DEC might have been better served by canceling Jupiter but
> marketing one of the 3rd party compatible 36-bit CPUs as a DEC model.  This
> had been considered (and dismissed) when Jupiter was in the early planning
> stages.

"one of the 3rd party compatible" CPUs?  Which one would that be?  When Jupiter
was thought up, there was exactly 1 company making such systems, Foonly--and
every Foonly system was a prototype, according to a friend at SRI who had to
support an installation.  (Boards were not interchangeable.)

Systems Concepts marketed their competing system with Fred Wright's memorable
statement that "Mars may be smaller than Jupiter, but it's a lot closer."  It
wasn't that much closer.  We took delivery of the first customer ship--which
was Mike and Stewart's prototype mahcine!--at LOTS on All Hallows' Eve, 1986,
three and a half years after the Jupiter cancellation.

And the SC-30M was not a Jupiter class machine (as the latter was planned,
although it was probalby a little faster than what was getting built).  The
entire point of Mars was a KL-10 clone which was bug-for-bug compatible but
simply faster, built with TTL instead of ECL.  They even created Massbus and CI
interfaces to meet the LOTS requirements.

It's a hell of a nice system, but it's not what KL-10 customers were looking
for in the Jupiter.

Cisco never got started on building the ToaD, so they weren't in the running,
and XKL was founded in December 1990.  The Toad-1 System was delivered to our
first customers in 1995, more than a decade after the Jupiter cancellation, and
it's in the same speed class as, and a little faster than, SC's Mars.  It's
just a whackingly great space reduction on the original with modern (for 1995)
peripherals instead of clinging to Massbus.

NB: The SC-40, the engine which Mike and Stewart licensed to CI$ to build for
    themselves, is roughly the same as the SC-30M, with a superspeed floating
    point processor built in for roughly 10x improvement over the KL-10 on the
    relevant benchmarks.

The only other possibility which even existed when Jupiter was a going concern
was MAXC, a one-off (well, two-off) purpose built clone at Xerox PARC, which
existed only because Xerox management would not buy a DECsystem-10 for the
scientists at PARC to run TENEX on.  It was even further from a commercial
possibility than the Foonly systems.

So I repeat:  Who are you talking about?

-- 
Rich Alderson					  news@alderson.users.panix.com
      Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
	  omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
									--Galen

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DEC Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 09:38 -0700
  Re: DEC Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-07-24 17:12 -0300
  Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 17:14 -0400
    Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 19:43 -0700
      Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 23:28 -0400
    Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 02:06 -0700
      Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 05:27 -0400
        Re: DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-25 10:58 +0100
          Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-25 17:21 +0000
            Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 13:54 -0400
              Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 14:43 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 18:05 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 20:27 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 21:08 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:29 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:30 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 00:06 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-05 06:06 +0000
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-07 10:19 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-07 20:01 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-07 22:45 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-08 13:35 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-09 15:33 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 13:16 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 15:00 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 18:35 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-08-10 23:10 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-09 19:18 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 18:40 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-09 15:30 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:39 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:43 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:32 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-26 21:45 +0000
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 18:01 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 06:38 +0100
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-26 01:24 +0000
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:39 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-26 20:18 +0000
            Re: 360 PCs was DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-25 19:39 +0100
        Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 12:50 -0700
  Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 02:26 -0700
  Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-26 19:23 +0000
    Re: DEC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-26 21:05 +0000
    Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-26 16:23 -0700
      Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 21:24 -0400
        Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-27 11:42 -0700
      Re: DEC archaeology John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-27 02:41 +0000
        Re: DEC archaeology Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-27 07:37 +0100
          Re: DEC archaeology Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-27 07:10 +0000
            Re: DEC archaeology Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 09:03 +0100
              Re: DEC archaeology Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> - 2020-07-27 02:09 -0700
                Re: DEC archaeology Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 11:27 +0100
              Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-27 12:22 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-07-27 20:51 -0400
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 06:02 +0100
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-28 08:29 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 17:30 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2020-07-28 18:18 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-28 19:57 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 21:32 +0100
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2020-07-28 21:34 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 18:33 -0400
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 20:55 +0100
          Re: DEC archaeology John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-27 14:53 +0000
            Re: DEC archaeology drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-07-27 11:30 -0500
            Re: DEC archaeology scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-27 16:37 +0000
              Re: DEC archaeology drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-07-28 10:24 -0500
                Re: DEC archaeology scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-28 15:59 +0000
        Re: DEC archaeology Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-27 11:42 -0700
          Re: DEC archaeology J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-27 18:47 -0400
          Re: DEC archaeology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-27 17:43 -0700
      Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-28 03:21 +0000
        Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 17:30 +0000
        Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-28 20:27 +0000
          Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 18:53 -0400
            Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 10:36 +0100
              Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2020-08-02 12:55 +0200
                Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 12:49 -0400
            Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 14:08 -0700
          Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 14:04 -0700
        Re: DEC Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2020-07-30 03:49 -0600
          Re: DEC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-30 14:41 +0000
            Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-30 10:12 -0700
              Re: DEC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-30 18:40 +0000
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-30 12:02 -0700
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-07-31 02:38 -0700
                Re: DEC large computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-31 20:21 +0000
                Re: DEC large computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-31 23:23 +0000
                Re: DEC large computers J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 21:13 -0400
                Re: DEC large computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-01 10:39 +0000
                Re: vectors, was DEC large computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 02:21 +0000
                Re: vectors, was DEC large computers Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 11:14 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-07-31 20:30 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 00:00 -0400
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:20 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-01 07:00 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 08:18 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 11:52 -0400
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-02 21:58 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 18:50 -0400
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 18:23 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 13:34 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-01 00:55 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:27 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 17:27 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-01 12:11 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 19:56 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 20:18 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 23:42 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 20:32 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2020-08-02 12:58 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 16:28 -0400
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2020-08-02 20:42 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 20:27 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-02 00:28 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-02 08:01 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 16:47 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 19:45 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-08-03 21:00 -0600
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-02 22:45 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 07:45 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-01 08:24 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:30 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:34 -0700
                Re: DEC large computers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-01 00:51 -0700
                Re: DEC large computers robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:23 -0700
                Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-07-31 21:16 -0400
                Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2020-08-01 01:56 +0000
                Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2020-08-01 15:59 +0100
                Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-08-01 22:09 -0400
                Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-08-01 22:07 -0400
                Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-08-03 00:32 +0000
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-02 23:54 -0700
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 07:45 -0700
                Re: DEC robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-03 09:16 -0700
                Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 10:10 -0700
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 10:35 -0700
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 11:28 -0700
                Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 21:26 +0000
                Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 16:38 -0700
                Re: DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-03 21:44 -0400
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 23:55 -0700
                Re: DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 08:05 -0400
                Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 08:59 -0400
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-04 06:29 -0700
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-04 07:48 -0700
                Re: DEC Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-05 04:13 +0000
                Re: DEC robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-04 22:45 -0700
                Re: DEC JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-05 12:33 -0500
                Re: DEC "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-05 19:31 +0000
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-04 22:57 -0700
                Re: DEC Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-05 08:13 +0000
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-05 10:58 -0700
                Re: DEC drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-08-05 13:28 -0500
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-06 16:21 -0700
                Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 18:23 +0000
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 11:31 -0700
                Re: DEC danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-08-03 18:38 +0000
                Re: DEC "m. thompson" <michael.99.thompson@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 05:38 -0700
                Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-04 18:54 +0000
                Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-08-03 00:32 +0000
                Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-30 13:29 -0700
          Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-30 20:27 +0000

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