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Groups > comp.lang.c > #54481

Re: which one is better

From glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: which one is better
Date 2014-12-14 04:15 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <m6j2sr$iq1$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <928b672d-493e-42e4-8527-f480910b5942@googlegroups.com> <m6dk9a$sg4$1@speranza.aioe.org> <2dada1c7-7132-484b-b1e6-f5b96defea1a@googlegroups.com> <Cuyiw.34264$7u3.18803@fx47.am4> <3mziw.50156$AC.43941@fx29.am4>

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BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

(snip)

> Sometimes, you just have to decide if it's worthwhile crippling your 
> software, or discarding the simplest, most obvious and most efficient 
> approach to a problem, because it might not work on some odd-ball 
> machine that hardly anyone uses and is practically obsolete anyway.

(snip, someone wrote)
>>> It should be the standard. The
>>> fringes then self-identify because they are not
>>> part of the standard (such as VM/CMS), standing
>>> out in and of themselves because of their
>>> obtuse peculiarities.

(snip)

> And there weren't any minis and mainframes with ridiculous 
> architectures? (60-bit words for example with no way to access 
> character-sized chunks!)

(snip)

The CDC 60 bit machines used six bit characters.  When they added
lower case, it was 6 or 12 bits for each character. That must also
complicate fseek().

I believe some Cray machines have 64 bit char.

> Some things you can just feel are naturally right. Such as 
> byte-addressable memory, and a file system with an interface based on 
> the file-sizes measured in bytes (even though most memory hardware 
> worked in single bits, while disk drives used a bit-stream divided into 
> 512-byte sectors).

The disks IBM made for many years allowed one to specify the block
size, and even write different blocks of different length. Most disk
efficient, though not memory efficient, write one block per track.
That worked until tracks got longer than 32767 bytes.

CMS originally used a file system with 800 byte blocks (written onto
disks that like described above).  Later CMS allows for 1024, 2048,
or 4096 byte blocks.  But within that file system, virtual blocks
can be defined, such that files look like on OS disks.
 
> Those new, simple microprocessors which started emerging at that time 
> (actually well before 1983) must have been a breath of fresh air.
 
> Whatever the ANSI people were doing, there was no way they were going to 
> be able to ignore this new wave of machines which opened up computing to 
> millions.
 
> (And anyway, also at this time, I was creating compilers and running 
> programs on some of these machines without any trouble at all, without 
> any benefit of C either. It really wasn't hard. But then I wasn't 
> troubled by a requirement to write programs which would work unchanged 
> on a 6.5-bit word computer, with a 3-word-addressable memory, and which 
> used signed-magnitude except on Tuesday afternoons!
 
> Pandering to the lowest common denominator is one way of creating 
> 'portable' software. It's also a way of writing the least efficient and 
> most complicated, and ensuring it takes several times as long! If it 
> ever completes.)

If you want support from those who sell computers like that, you
have to pander to them.  At least in the 1960's and 1970's, you can't
ignore IBM. 

-- glen

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Thread

which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-07 14:48 -0800
  Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-07 16:14 -0800
    Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-08 01:28 +0000
      Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-07 19:01 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-08 00:32 -0800
      Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-08 01:40 -0800
  which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-07 19:00 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-08 00:35 -0800
      Re: which one is better gordonb.7ngx1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 06:28 -0600
        Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 13:08 +0000
          Re: which one is better Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-16 23:49 -0500
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 05:15 -0800
          Re: which one is better gordonb.9nipv@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-17 02:22 -0600
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:21 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:21 -0600
  Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 12:34 +0100
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 05:33 -0800
      Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:27 +0100
      Re: which one is better gordonb.cx8yb@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 06:58 -0600
    Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 15:05 +0000
      Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:31 +0100
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:11 +0000
          Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 18:44 +0100
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:19 -0800
            Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:07 +0000
              Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 20:52 +0000
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 22:10 +0000
              Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 22:57 +0100
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 15:34 +0000
        Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:45 +0100
          Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:56 -0800
            Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 16:08 +0000
            Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 17:19 +0100
              Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:35 -0800
            Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:09 +0000
              Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 09:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:13 +0000
            Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-11 20:18 +0000
              Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 12:57 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 01:55 -0600
                Re: which one is better Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2014-12-12 03:03 -0500
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 02:30 -0600
                Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-14 04:03 +0000
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:04 +0000
    Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:53 -0800
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 17:49 +0000
      Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:18 -0800
        Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:43 -0800
          Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 11:50 -0800
          Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 12:10 -0800
            Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 20:30 +0000
              Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:19 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:32 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.ygnb6@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 08:00 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 06:23 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.ne8xc@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-17 02:38 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.dwhy1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-19 02:50 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-19 05:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:48 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:21 -0800
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 01:53 +0200
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 00:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 11:33 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 02:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 12:35 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:53 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 12:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:45 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 14:50 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:16 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:36 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 16:42 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 18:06 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:09 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 14:51 +0100
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-18 08:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 08:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-18 10:56 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 12:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-18 12:55 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:12 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:19 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:41 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:49 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:09 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:22 -0800
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-23 12:32 +0200
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-24 02:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:35 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 22:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 22:00 +0000
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-11 22:08 +0000
              Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-11 15:38 -0800
              Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-12 02:29 +0000
          Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:26 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 12:56 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 02:05 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 00:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:24 -0600
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:17 +0000
    Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 01:14 +0200
  Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:15 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:25 -0800
      Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 15:00 +0000
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:28 -0800
          Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:42 -0800
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:01 -0800
              Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:37 -0800
          Re: which one is better Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-12-14 05:46 +0000
  Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:14 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:26 -0800
    Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:32 -0800
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 16:45 +0000
      Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-12 02:35 +0000
        Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 20:36 -0800
          Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-12 05:14 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 06:20 -0800
          Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 09:23 +0000
            Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 10:22 +0000
              Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 10:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 11:11 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 04:47 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 13:25 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:15 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:49 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 01:50 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 02:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:36 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 13:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 14:56 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 07:08 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 07:32 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 15:36 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 08:26 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 10:27 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 07:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 09:57 +0100
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 09:54 +0100
                Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 10:03 -0800
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 11:14 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 11:46 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 12:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 12:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 02:11 +0200
              Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-14 04:15 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 21:19 -0800
          Re: which one is better Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-12 22:51 -0500
      Re: which one is better gordonb.3w2i6@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 09:09 -0600
  Re: which one is better Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-11 16:12 -0600
    Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 14:29 -0800
      Re: which one is better Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-11 17:32 -0600
        Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 15:39 -0800
          Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-11 23:55 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 15:57 -0800
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 00:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 16:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 10:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 03:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:52 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 13:00 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 13:51 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 13:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 15:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 15:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 16:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 17:51 -0800
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-12 21:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-13 01:40 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 18:17 -0800
                Re: which one is better Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-13 02:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 10:25 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 13:43 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 22:44 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 15:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 01:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 19:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 12:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-14 12:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-14 20:57 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 13:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 13:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 14:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 14:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 15:08 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 15:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 00:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 08:05 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 00:25 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 14:33 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-14 23:28 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 15:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 01:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 02:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:02 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:13 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:26 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 11:19 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:50 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 11:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:50 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 18:57 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:39 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:43 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 05:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 12:43 +0100
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 14:03 +0100
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 13:28 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 06:09 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 06:35 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:13 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 14:06 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:53 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 19:20 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 12:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 12:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:05 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 11:32 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:38 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 17:20 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 09:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 17:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-15 10:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:01 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.3j8fq@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 10:18 -0600
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-15 18:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:37 -0800
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-15 21:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 22:22 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 15:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 17:25 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 02:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:20 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:37 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 05:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 01:41 +0000
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:33 -0600
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-18 00:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 21:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-14 15:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 16:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 00:54 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 10:55 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 11:11 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:01 +1300
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 10:09 +0100
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 15:58 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 15:41 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 18:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-13 08:42 +1300
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 19:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 07:39 -0800
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 16:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-12 08:16 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 16:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 14:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 06:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 16:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 08:28 -0800
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 15:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 14:39 +0000
                Re: which one is better Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2014-12-12 11:11 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 09:34 -0800
    Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-12 21:47 +1300
      Re: which one is better Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2014-12-16 12:30 -0500
        Re: which one is better Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 12:21 -0600
          Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 13:06 -0600
            Re: which one is better Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 16:44 -0600
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 18:21 -0600
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 01:04 -0800
      Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 02:06 -0800
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 02:24 -0800

csiph-web