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Groups > comp.lang.c > #54391

Re: which one is better

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: which one is better
Date 2014-12-12 15:58 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <m6evqv$pid$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <PFAiw.83920$c73.23527@fx27.am4> <m6elbl$at1$1@dont-email.me> <BpBiw.169215$u67.40064@fx08.am4> <m6eoc4$orr$1@dont-email.me> <pEBiw.86780$5z5.51476@fx42.am4>

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On 12/12/14 13:59, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
> 
>> On 12/12/14 13:43, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> David Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/12/14 12:52, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One man's obvious is another man's obscure. For example, it is obvious
>>>>> to me that the new int types in C99 (I refer specifically to long long
>>>>> int and the various intn_t types) were unnecessary and pointless, but I
>>>>> doubt very much whether it's obvious to everybody.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a great fan of the standardised intN_t types, and a hater of
>>>> home-made fixed size types, I am very curious about why you think they
>>>> are obviously unnecessary and pointless.
>>>
>>> We already had int, short int, and long int. (We didn't actually need
>>> short int or long int, either.)
>>>
>>
>> But those don't cover the range of integer types supported by modern
>> processors or modern cpus,
> 
> There is no upper limit on the size of int. It must be at least 16 bits, but 
> can be as wide as you like. If you need a smaller type, char must be at 
> least 8 bits. If you need a smaller type than 8 bits, you're out of luck 
> even with the C99 types. As for modern processors or modern cpus, the C 
> Standard doesn't trouble itself with such trivialities. :-)

Are you trying to say that no one should ever need integer values
outside the range of the processor's fastest type (of at least 16 bit),
or that compilers should make their "int" as big as the largest integer
anyone needs, regardless of the speed and size costs?  Because those are
the only two options if "int" is the only integer type available.

> 
>> and they don't give good enough
>> specifications of the sizes for applications that need to know exact
>> types.
> 
> This is probably where we're going to fall out. I would argue that 
> applications don't need to know exact sizes. You only need to know that the 
> type is, or is not, big enough to express the range of values that you wish 
> to store in it.

Then I would argue that you live (as a programmer) in a very small world.

Roughly put, whenever you have to transfer binary data into or out of a
program, you need exact sizes for the transfers.  That means you either
need to pass everything through char pointers, with all the
complications and inefficiencies that involves, or you need to use sized
integer types.  This applies to anything working with files, or using
binary network protocols.  Of course it also applies to low-level code,
and to practically everything in embedded programming.  It also applies
to shared libraries or any other situation where code might involving
combining parts that may be generated by different types of

I agree that most of the time it only matters that the range is big
enough - but sometimes exact size is also critical.

> 
>>
>> Compilers have always been free to implement "extended integer types"
>> providing such features - the <stdint.h> types gave a standard defined
>> way to name these types (when they exist on the target).
>>
>> It would have been possible for the C standards to specify that a char
>> is 8-bit, short is 16-bit, int is 32-bit and long is 64-bit.
> 
> I think that would have been a mistake, but yes, it could have worked. 

I agree that it would have been a mistake.  I think the right thing
would have been to define the fixed size types at the start, and make
"int" a typedef for int_fast16_t.  I would have preferred the C specs to
have insisted on two's complement power-of-two sized integers as the
basic types, and allowed additional types only as "extended integer types".

> And 
> if so, then when the inevitable time came for a 128-bit type, it should have 
> been called very long, not long long. (Thereafter, you can have very very 
> long, very very very long, and so on.)

No, it can be called something like "__int128_t", as that is a reserved
name.  Then <stdint.h> can typedef it to int128_t.

> 
>> Then we
>> would not need the <stdint.h> types (at least, not until 128-bit types
>> become common).  But that's not the way the C standards are written.
> 
> No. They're written in such a way that the implementor is free to offer a 
> 4096-bit int type if need be. (The day may well come when this won't sound 
> quite so ludicrous as it does at the time of writing.)
> 

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Thread

which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-07 14:48 -0800
  Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-07 16:14 -0800
    Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-08 01:28 +0000
      Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-07 19:01 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-08 00:32 -0800
      Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-08 01:40 -0800
  which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-07 19:00 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-08 00:35 -0800
      Re: which one is better gordonb.7ngx1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 06:28 -0600
        Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 13:08 +0000
          Re: which one is better Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-16 23:49 -0500
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 05:15 -0800
          Re: which one is better gordonb.9nipv@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-17 02:22 -0600
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:21 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:21 -0600
  Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 12:34 +0100
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 05:33 -0800
      Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:27 +0100
      Re: which one is better gordonb.cx8yb@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 06:58 -0600
    Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 15:05 +0000
      Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:31 +0100
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:11 +0000
          Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 18:44 +0100
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:19 -0800
            Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:07 +0000
              Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 20:52 +0000
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 22:10 +0000
              Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 22:57 +0100
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 15:34 +0000
        Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:45 +0100
          Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:56 -0800
            Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 16:08 +0000
            Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 17:19 +0100
              Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:35 -0800
            Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:09 +0000
              Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 09:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:13 +0000
            Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-11 20:18 +0000
              Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 12:57 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 01:55 -0600
                Re: which one is better Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2014-12-12 03:03 -0500
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 02:30 -0600
                Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-14 04:03 +0000
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:04 +0000
    Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:53 -0800
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 17:49 +0000
      Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:18 -0800
        Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:43 -0800
          Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 11:50 -0800
          Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 12:10 -0800
            Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 20:30 +0000
              Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:19 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:32 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.ygnb6@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 08:00 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 06:23 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.ne8xc@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-17 02:38 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.dwhy1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-19 02:50 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-19 05:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:48 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:21 -0800
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 01:53 +0200
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 00:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 11:33 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 02:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 12:35 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:53 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 12:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:45 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 14:50 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:16 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:36 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 16:42 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 18:06 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:09 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 14:51 +0100
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-18 08:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 08:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-18 10:56 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 12:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-18 12:55 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:12 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:19 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:41 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:49 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:09 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:22 -0800
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-23 12:32 +0200
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-24 02:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:35 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 22:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 22:00 +0000
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-11 22:08 +0000
              Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-11 15:38 -0800
              Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-12 02:29 +0000
          Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:26 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 12:56 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 02:05 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 00:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:24 -0600
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:17 +0000
    Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 01:14 +0200
  Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:15 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:25 -0800
      Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 15:00 +0000
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:28 -0800
          Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:42 -0800
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:01 -0800
              Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:37 -0800
          Re: which one is better Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-12-14 05:46 +0000
  Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:14 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:26 -0800
    Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:32 -0800
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 16:45 +0000
      Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-12 02:35 +0000
        Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 20:36 -0800
          Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-12 05:14 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 06:20 -0800
          Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 09:23 +0000
            Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 10:22 +0000
              Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 10:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 11:11 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 04:47 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 13:25 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:15 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:49 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 01:50 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 02:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:36 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 13:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 14:56 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 07:08 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 07:32 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 15:36 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 08:26 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 10:27 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 07:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 09:57 +0100
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 09:54 +0100
                Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 10:03 -0800
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 11:14 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 11:46 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 12:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 12:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 02:11 +0200
              Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-14 04:15 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 21:19 -0800
          Re: which one is better Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-12 22:51 -0500
      Re: which one is better gordonb.3w2i6@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 09:09 -0600
  Re: which one is better Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-11 16:12 -0600
    Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 14:29 -0800
      Re: which one is better Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-11 17:32 -0600
        Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 15:39 -0800
          Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-11 23:55 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 15:57 -0800
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 00:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 16:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 10:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 03:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:52 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 13:00 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 13:51 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 13:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 15:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 15:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 16:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 17:51 -0800
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-12 21:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-13 01:40 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 18:17 -0800
                Re: which one is better Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-13 02:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 10:25 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 13:43 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 22:44 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 15:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 01:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 19:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 12:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-14 12:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-14 20:57 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 13:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 13:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 14:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 14:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 15:08 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 15:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 00:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 08:05 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 00:25 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 14:33 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-14 23:28 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 15:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 01:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 02:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:02 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:13 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:26 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 11:19 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:50 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 11:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:50 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 18:57 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:39 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:43 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 05:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 12:43 +0100
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 14:03 +0100
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 13:28 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 06:09 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 06:35 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:13 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 14:06 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:53 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 19:20 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 12:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 12:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:05 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 11:32 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:38 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 17:20 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 09:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 17:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-15 10:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:01 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.3j8fq@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 10:18 -0600
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-15 18:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:37 -0800
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-15 21:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 22:22 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 15:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 17:25 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 02:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:20 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:37 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 05:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 01:41 +0000
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:33 -0600
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-18 00:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 21:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-14 15:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 16:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 00:54 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 10:55 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 11:11 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:01 +1300
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 10:09 +0100
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 15:58 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 15:41 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 18:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-13 08:42 +1300
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 19:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 07:39 -0800
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 16:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-12 08:16 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 16:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 14:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 06:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 16:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 08:28 -0800
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 15:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 14:39 +0000
                Re: which one is better Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2014-12-12 11:11 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 09:34 -0800
    Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-12 21:47 +1300
      Re: which one is better Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2014-12-16 12:30 -0500
        Re: which one is better Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 12:21 -0600
          Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 13:06 -0600
            Re: which one is better Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 16:44 -0600
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 18:21 -0600
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 01:04 -0800
      Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 02:06 -0800
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 02:24 -0800

csiph-web