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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #265911

Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT

From "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT
Date 2014-11-03 12:57 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <m38flf$l6s$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <ox6gcgmwi6hh$.g5yi05v7rywf.dlg@40tude.net> <m36esb$4fr$2@dont-email.me> <pa6olecfqp3e$.wjhhwmc3uqnb$.dlg@40tude.net> <m36h26$bhv$1@dont-email.me> <19w4mvh093whb$.1qbjbipucr8aa$.dlg@40tude.net>

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" flatfish+++" <phlatphish@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:19w4mvh093whb$.1qbjbipucr8aa$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 01:08:45 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 00:31:31 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 00:20:38 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Carroll wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 2, 2014 10:46:53 PM UTC, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> when mobile devices are for the most part 32bit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Android phones are still stuck at 32bit where Apple has long since
>>>>>>> moved to 64bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong. As usual
>>>>>
>>>>> And how many Android phones are actually using 64 bit?
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.android.gs/iphone-6-plus-vs-lg-g3-specs-battle/
>>>>>
>>>>> "Apple used 64-bit processors for the first time last year, on the
>>>>> iPhone 5S, and the iPhone 6 Plus also comes with 64-bit CPU. On the
>>>>> other hand, the Android OEMs arenÿt currently using 64-bit enabled
>>>>> processors on their smartphones."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is irrelevant, because Android has already moved to 64bits.
>>>> And the processores are available and in use.

"HTC announces the world's first 64-bit Android phone"
August 27, 2014
http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/27/6076457/htc-desire-510-64-bit-android

"already moved"  -  as in a couple of months ago. But the title of the same 
article also says:

    "But there's no 64-bit OS to go with it yet"


>>>> A claim like "Android phones are still stuck at 32bit" is bullshit. And
>>>> has been for some time already.
>>>>
>>>> Most iOS devices out there are just 32bits as their 
>>>> android-counterparts

My 5S has been running a 64-bit OS on 64-bit hardware for over a year now. 
What old existing phones are running isn't the issue or the subject. It's 
what is available today.


>>> Nice try.....
>>>
>>> Theory vs actual practice.....
>>>
>>> Android supports 64 bit in theory....
>>
>> Wrong. It is here. In practice
>
> What phones?

One phone that I know of. There's no 64-bit version of Android for it. And 
certainly very, very few if any 64-bit apps for it.

64-bit Android... it was just released as a "developer preview." . But only 
for x86 and not for ARM which is what phones use.


>>> Apple is actually using 64 bit....
>>
>> Right. With iOS devices which have at most 1GB memory.

In most benchmarks a 1GB iPhone will beat a 2GB Android phone. And that's 
with Android phones usually cheating to game the benchmark results.


>> Needing 30 bits
>> Look up what memory is actually used in iPhone 6.
>> It is a mere 1GByte. Android devices have passed that value long ago.
>> My android phone uses 2 GBytes internal memory. *Twice* the amount of any
>> iOS device

In most benchmarks a 1GB iPhone will beat a 2GB Android phone. And that's 
with Android phones usually cheating to game the benchmarks.

> Goal posts moving that way -------->>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>> At some point Android will catch up, but currently Android is stuck
>>> in a 32 bit world and all your squirming won't change that.
>>>
>>
>> Well, android devices are already at 3 GBytes of memory. Needing all of 
>> the
>> 32 bits.

Who the fuck cares about addressable memory at this point. Out of all the 
benefits of 64-bit being able to address more than 2^32 bits of memory is 
the LEAST interesting. Being able to use more and larger general purpose 
(and FP) registers and being able to use 64-bit instructions to fetch and 
work on 64-bit chunks of data at a time are far more useful.

The 64-bit processor in my 5S has 2X as many registers as a 32-bit ARM 
processor and each register can now hold 64-bits of data.


Simply being able to address more memory is the least interesting advantage. 
Performance goes way up with 64 bit instructions running 64-bit code.

In benchmarks comparing AES (Advanced Encryption Standard) of the 64-bit vs 
32-bit iPhone processor the results were 846.2 MB/s  vs 91.5 MB/s  or an 
improvement of 825%. SHA1 performance increased by 245%.

Neither of these benchmarks use anywhere even close to 4GB of memory. Being 
able to efficiently process 64-bits of data at a time is a HUGE plus no 
matter how much memory is available.



> Goal posts moving that way -------->>>>>>>>>
>
>> Currently *no* mobile device needs more than 32 bits. No matter if 
>> android
>> or iOS.
>
> Goal posts moving that way -------->>>>>>>>>

If you only limit your 64-bit thinking to how much memory can be addressed 
then true.


>> But android devices are much nearer to the brink where 32bits are not 
>> enough
>
> Goal posts moving that way -------->>>>>>>>>

Memory. Memory. Memory. As if that's /all/  that 64-bit computing is about.

-- 
Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about 
telescopes - E.W. Dijkstra

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Thread

Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2014-11-02 18:04 +0000
  Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT White Spirit <wspirit@homechoice.co.uk> - 2014-11-02 19:14 +0000
    Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2014-11-02 19:49 +0000
      Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-02 16:18 -0500
        Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2014-11-02 22:01 +0000
        Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT White Spirit <wspirit@homechoice.co.uk> - 2014-11-02 22:48 +0000
          Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-11-02 14:51 -0800
            Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2014-11-02 14:59 -0800
  Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-11-02 22:58 +0100
    Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2014-11-02 22:37 +0000
      Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-11-02 23:46 +0100
        Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-11-02 15:04 -0800
          Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-11-03 00:20 +0100
            Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-02 18:23 -0500
              Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-11-03 00:31 +0100
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-02 18:42 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-11-02 19:07 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-02 19:08 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-11-03 01:08 +0100
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-02 19:19 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2014-11-03 12:57 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-11-03 13:10 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchemail.com> - 2014-11-03 13:26 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-11-03 15:03 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-11-03 21:29 +0100
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-11-03 15:56 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-11-03 22:05 +0100
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-11-03 17:05 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-11-04 02:09 -0600
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2014-11-04 06:53 -0600
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-11-03 12:54 -0800
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-11-02 16:21 -0800
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-11-02 17:56 -0600
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-11-02 19:19 -0500
                Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 7 <email_at_www_at_enemygadgets_dot_com@enemygadgets.com> - 2014-11-03 16:31 +0000
    Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT White Spirit <wspirit@homechoice.co.uk> - 2014-11-02 22:56 +0000
      Re: Next gen gate keeper modem/routers need improvement for IoT 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-11-02 18:03 -0500

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