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Re: big drives

Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: big drives
References	<rpn2dc9nqndp7glvfi5pdedb8ujgmf7pln@4ax.com> <oatk6f031g4@drn.newsguy.com> <20170322a@crcomp.net> <oauiut$ec$1@dont-email.me>
From	dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Date	2017-03-22 13:57 -0700
Message-ID	<m35bqd-i6g.ln1@coop.radagast.org> (permalink)
Organization	Unlimited download news at news.astraweb.com

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In article <oauiut$ec$1@dont-email.me>,
Don Y  <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>The "bulk" of my secondary (or, do we now call it tertiary?)
>storage is slow and cheap to replace (commodity multiterabyte
>drives) so I can provide as much redundancy as a particular
>"file" might need (instead of relying on *an* array to provide
>ALL of it).  The downside of big spindles being that you risk
>losing A LOT with a single failure -- and, investing a lot of time
>to recover/reconstitute it all!
>
>OTOH, there is a disheartening trend towards sluggish 2.5" drives
>in many machines.  Or, fast SSD's -- the whole middle ground has been
>hollowed out (compromising speed vs. cost) in favor of the extremes.

Part of the problem is that in order to continue to increase the
capacity of hard drives, the vendors are having to move to "shingled"
recording mode.  This allows for narrower tracks, but at a significant
cost in performance - the tracks partially overlap, and this limits
how you can erase and rewrite sectors.

As the vendor guys explained it to me several years ago:  internally,
a shingled drive manages its storage in a way that's analogous to the
way an SSD manages flash blocks.  Disk sector addresses are
virtualized.  When the host rewrites a sector, the drive writes the
data to the next-available unused sector in one of the shingle zones,
and then updates its internal directory and marks the sector's old
shingle location "unused".  Periodically, the drive controller must
read and move all of the "still meaningful" sectors in older shingle
zones, then erase these zones and use them for new writes (basically a
garbage-collection process).

This can and does have a significant impact on performance.
Shingled drives are good for storing lots of data - ideally, data
which doesn't change too often - but they have a higher performance
overhead, and poorer performance predictability than traditional hard
drives.  Great for DVRs and other media-storage applications, and for
archiving;  not so great for general-purpose desktop/laptop storage.

Thread

big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-21 10:21 -0700
  Re: big drives bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-21 13:47 -0400
    Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 12:42 -0700
      Re: big drives dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 12:55 -0700
        Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 13:37 -0700
          Re: big drives bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-03-21 21:51 -0700
            Re: big drives George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 07:26 -0700
  Re: big drives Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-03-22 03:38 -0700
    Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-22 14:23 +0000
      Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-22 16:43 +0100
        Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-22 18:35 +0000
          Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-23 10:24 +0100
            Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-23 16:11 +0000
              Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 13:05 -0400
                Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-23 17:39 +0000
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 21:05 -0400
                Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-24 03:01 +0000
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 23:09 -0400
                Re: big drives Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-03-24 04:15 +0000
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:34 -0400
      Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 12:25 -0700
        Re: big drives dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-03-22 13:57 -0700
          Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:03 -0700
        Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:29 -0400
  Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-22 04:36 -0700
    Re: big drives Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-03-22 08:57 -0400
      Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-22 11:59 -0400
        Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:23 -0400
          Re: big drives Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:38 -0500
            Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:31 -0400
            Re: big drives gray_wolf <g_wolf@nospam.com> - 2017-03-23 20:59 -0500
            Re: big drives gray_wolf <g_wolf@nospam.com> - 2017-03-23 21:00 -0500
        Re: big drives Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-23 22:21 -0800
    Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 07:51 -0700
      Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:23 -0400
      Re: big drives Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-23 22:19 -0800
      Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:26 -0700
        Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:38 -0700
    Re: big drives Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:37 -0500
      Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:07 -0700
        Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:21 -0700
          Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:45 -0700
            Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 23:21 -0700
              Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 13:06 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 16:56 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 17:35 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 21:47 -0700
      Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 16:19 -0700
        Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 16:50 -0700
          Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 17:58 -0700
            Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 21:00 -0700
              Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-22 22:50 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 08:27 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 12:25 -0700
      Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:31 -0700
        Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 06:38 -0700
          Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:41 -0700
            Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:38 -0700
              Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 13:55 -0700
              Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 17:14 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 17:41 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 18:00 -0700
  Re: big drives Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-23 09:35 -0700
  Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-23 18:38 -0400
    Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 16:18 -0700
      Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-23 18:29 -0400
        Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 18:38 -0700
          Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 18:54 -0700
            Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 19:16 -0700
              Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 19:28 -0700
                Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 19:55 -0700
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 23:04 -0400
                Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 22:00 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:46 -0700
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:38 -0400
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-23 22:22 -0700
                Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 23:08 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 00:21 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 09:00 -0700
                Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:14 +0100
                Re: big drives tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 09:19 -0700
                Re: big drives David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-24 17:47 +0100
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 12:01 -0700
                Re: big drives Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-24 20:30 +0000
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:06 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 11:55 -0700
                Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-25 04:00 -0400
                Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-24 22:18 +0200
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:15 -0700
                Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:21 +0200
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-25 07:54 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 10:53 -0700
                Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-25 23:11 +0200
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-25 15:14 -0700
                Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-26 12:18 +0300
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-26 03:33 -0700
                Re: big drives Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-26 16:36 -0400
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-26 14:13 -0700
                Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 21:04 +0200
                Re: big drives pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 19:03 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 08:53 -0700
                Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 12:12 -0700
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 14:20 -0700
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:43 -0400
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 20:10 -0700
                Re: big drives krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 23:23 -0400
                Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 22:25 -0700
                Re: big drives Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:23 +0200
        Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 19:36 -0700
      Re: big drives upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-24 10:14 +0200
        Re: big drives Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-03-24 01:31 -0700
    Re: big drives John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-23 16:21 -0700
      Re: big drives "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-24 08:54 -0400

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