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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #18173

Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards?

From Don Y <this@is.not.me.com>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design, comp.arch.embedded
Subject Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards?
Date 2014-09-21 01:47 -0700
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <lvm3ft$76s$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (26 earlier) <lvlc58$1us$1@dont-email.me> <lvlhgn$448$1@speranza.aioe.org> <lvllqk$j75$1@dont-email.me> <lvls2o$mpj$1@speranza.aioe.org> <lvlv5j$urt$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 9/21/2014 12:35 AM, rickman wrote:
> On 9/21/2014 2:40 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>> ....snip...
>>> Why do you care again?
>>
>> So they are willing/eager to embrace the codebase and the products that are
>> consequent to it!  So I (and friends, colleagues, etc.), in turn, can buy
>> those products off-the-shelf instead of having to build every instance of
>> every product myself!  (I don't want to be building boards!)
>>
>>     "Gee, that's really cool!  Would you build me one if I paid you?"
>
> The question is why do you want someone to build 100,000 of them?

Don't *you* want your designs used?

> Heck, if you want something built, I'd be happy to do that.  :)
>
>>>> E.g., my thermostat is far more capable that a "Nest" thermostat.
>>>> Costs far
>>>> less to build.  Would obviously SELL for less.  Do you really think *I*
>>>> am going to invest in a custom injection mold, packaging, etc. and an
>>>> initial build of 10K (1000 would be silly... 20 for each state in the
>>>> Union?)?
>>>> Sell them out of my garage??  :-/
>>>
>>> WTF are you talking about???
>>
>> One of my designs is a smart HVAC controller (thermostat).  The "Nest" is a
>> similar product offered by "Nest" (recently acquired by Google).  Nice sexy
>> little package.  Expensive price tag (e.g., $200-300?).
>>
>> Anyone wanting to bring my thermostat to market (more features, lower
>> "cost")
>> would have to invest in an injection mold for it, pretty cardboard boxes
>> to package it in, sales literature, distribution channel, components for
>> "many thousands" (unless they wanted to sell out of a garage), etc.
>>
>> This is a sizable investment.  One would want to be sure to be able to make
>> money on the manufacture (and any future product enhancements) before
>> opening up their wallet!
>
> Do you have anyone interested?  If someone wanted to market such a product, the
> actual engineering of the board and software is not the biggest part of their
> expense.  As you realize the packaging is a huge investment and the marketing
> on top.  Why would they bother with your design rather than design it themselves.

Why would Google buy Nest?  For how many billions of dollars?  How many
multiples of their total sales??  Heck, can't the folks at Google come
up with a thermostat design on their own??  :>

> I think I have the answer to that... the answer to my previous question... is
> anyone interested?

I haven't offered it to anyone.  OTOH, you see lots of big companies (e.g.,
Apple, MS, Google) trying to figure out how to develop this market.  None of
them seem to have taken "big enough" steps, yet (fearful that consumers may
not be ready?)

Regardless, *I* am ready and see this as a vehicle to explore some of
my design ideas...

>> I don't want to build even HUNDREDS!  I spent a fair bit of time, recently,
>> trying to avoid building the *prototypes*!  I am far more interested in
>> getting the *design* right.  So everything "plays well" together, looks
>> like it was designed with a consistent philosophy and methodology, user
>> interface, etc.  Building (even prototype quantities) is largely a "chore"!
>
> I'm not sure why you are designing hardware really.  Some things I do for fun,
> but most I do for profit and there can be lots of profit in designing the right
> hardware.

This is mainly "fun" -- an unconstrained learning experience.  Of course, I
will also benefit from the resulting products (even if I only build prototypes
to satisfy my own personal requirements).

I *have to* design and build hardware because I can't purchase anything
off the shelf that has similar capabilities/characteristics -- even if I
could "drop" my software into it!

E.g., my "network speaker" design has to fit in a traditional "1 gang" junction
box.  (Well, it doesn't *have* to but it sure would be far more convenient
to include in new home designs and existing home retrofits if it just looked
like a "light switch/duplex receptacle" -- than if it was a 4" x 4" PCB!)

Without resorting to full (or even semi-custom) implementations, it's just not
practical to cram that much stuff on a tiny board.  So, I use both sides of
a couple of boards, sandwiched to give me the appropriate form factor.  No one
would build a generic system with the same hardware capabilities in that
"odd" form factor/envelope.

>>> I think the problem is that from the beginning the discussion was
>>> about *using*
>>> a GPL'd OS.  But in your mind that means modifying it and including it a
>>> product which you have only skirted around until now. The rest of us
>>> have not
>>> been talking about building products that include the GPL'd code.
>>
>> You initially asked why Linux "couldn't do that" (probe the Atom's
>> hardware).
>> I mentioned that I don't *use* Linux.  From there, explained why I didn't
>> (because I can't leverage anything that I learn/copy from its sources
>> without
>> being encumbered with it's GPL).
>
> So you don't use any appliance that is not open source?

I use lots of close source devices!  But, any devices that I want to have
control over (their implementation) by necessity are open source.

The router/firewall that services this computer is a Linksys device.  The
sources are *probably* available.  But, I have no interest in modifying it
as it does what I want well enough.

OTOH, I am annoyed with a couple of the "closed source" NAS boxes that I
own.  So, one target of the Atom SBC's is to let me discard those "closed"
boxes and move the files onto the Atom SBC's (even if that means "external
drives" as the Atom can't support ANY 3.5" drives internally)

>> However, with FOSS software, the whole appeal (IMO) is being able to
>> inspect
>> the sources... to learn from a "working example"... a "reference
>> design", so
>> to speak.  Pick a reference design from which you can FREELY learn/benefit!
>>
>> (sigh)  Done for tonight.  Another cheesecake to put in the oven.  Then,
>> one *final* one next week.  Thank God!  :-/
>
> I've spent enough time with you I feel I should get a slice..... :p

<grin>  SWMBO would be annoyed -- for her "artist's reception" next week.
And, it doesn't travel well (though the one I made two days ago leaves for
Denver on Monday -- LONG drive!).  Next week's just has to go across the
street, here... (neighbor's daughter's wedding)

(sigh)  Let this cool for a few hours then move it into the 'frig'.  I can
slice it and package it tomorrow.

Then I won't have to look at any more of this disgusting stuff until after the
holidays!

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Thread

Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-17 00:46 -0700
  Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-17 04:05 -0400
    Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? dplatt@coop.radagast.org (David Platt) - 2014-09-17 11:09 -0700
    Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-09-17 22:52 -0500
  Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? mroberds@att.net - 2014-09-17 08:21 +0000
    Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-17 02:00 -0700
      Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-17 13:08 +0200
        Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? JW <none@dev.null> - 2014-09-17 08:24 -0400
      Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? mroberds@att.net - 2014-09-17 21:44 +0000
        Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? dplatt@coop.radagast.org (David Platt) - 2014-09-17 15:04 -0700
        Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-18 00:28 -0700
          Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-18 03:41 -0400
            Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-18 03:31 -0700
              Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-18 18:12 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-18 15:53 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-18 19:22 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-18 17:18 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2014-09-18 21:16 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-18 21:44 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-19 09:19 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-19 01:36 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-19 11:53 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-19 03:10 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-19 13:02 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-19 04:26 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-19 13:50 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-19 10:16 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-20 16:42 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 12:19 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-20 21:58 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 13:33 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-20 23:00 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 16:14 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-21 02:12 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 20:05 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-21 12:45 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 16:34 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 13:41 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 17:29 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2014-09-21 00:12 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 19:01 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 16:17 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-21 02:17 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 22:27 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-09-21 13:25 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2014-09-21 15:56 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-21 18:19 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-21 09:37 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 14:22 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-09-21 23:13 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 14:20 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-09-21 23:15 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 20:20 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 16:09 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 23:25 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 03:28 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 01:27 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2014-09-21 14:20 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-21 13:09 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 12:06 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-22 09:55 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2014-09-20 23:54 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 15:46 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 19:09 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 16:29 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 22:11 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 20:40 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 00:56 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 23:40 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 03:35 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 01:47 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 07:33 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 11:56 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-21 20:32 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2014-09-22 11:03 +1000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 18:18 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2014-09-22 11:53 +1000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 19:05 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 19:05 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? krw@attt.bizz - 2014-09-21 11:50 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2014-09-21 18:50 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 20:09 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2014-09-21 21:25 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-21 22:12 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-23 09:38 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-22 10:15 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 04:59 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? krw@attt.bizz - 2014-09-22 15:38 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-22 10:02 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 01:44 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 05:25 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-22 12:44 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 04:33 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-22 13:00 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 05:02 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-22 15:19 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-22 14:35 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 07:55 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-22 17:35 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 10:06 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-22 10:25 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2014-09-22 19:48 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-22 20:46 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2014-10-08 12:34 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-10-08 13:10 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-08 17:31 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-10-08 14:53 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-10-08 15:06 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2014-10-09 19:09 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-09 13:44 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-10-09 22:31 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2014-10-09 17:29 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2014-10-09 17:31 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-09 21:25 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2014-10-09 23:27 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-10-09 21:56 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Stefan Reuther <stefan.news@arcor.de> - 2014-10-10 18:48 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-10-10 10:43 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2014-10-11 21:25 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? krw@attt.bizz - 2014-10-10 18:27 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2014-10-11 03:05 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 18:43 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-22 23:36 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 16:48 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-23 01:05 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 18:47 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-23 02:11 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 22:24 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 00:29 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-23 10:07 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-09-23 07:14 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 23:43 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? krw@attt.bizz - 2014-09-23 13:14 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-23 18:18 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 19:28 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? krw@attt.bizz - 2014-09-23 19:58 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 16:52 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? krw@attt.bizz - 2014-09-23 19:57 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2014-10-08 12:39 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 18:38 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-22 23:41 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 23:27 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-23 05:34 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 02:21 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-24 09:42 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 09:51 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-23 18:23 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 16:53 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-24 08:15 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-24 10:52 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-24 21:51 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-24 15:57 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 09:52 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 18:19 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 15:33 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 18:38 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 15:59 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 19:03 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-24 00:15 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 19:30 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 16:56 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-09-24 02:09 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 20:17 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 17:26 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 21:20 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-23 23:42 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2014-10-08 12:41 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-22 17:03 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-22 10:19 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 15:21 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-22 12:55 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2014-09-22 12:25 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 05:37 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-22 14:37 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-22 14:32 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 07:01 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2014-09-22 15:22 +0100
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 08:01 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 00:35 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2014-09-23 09:09 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-09-23 07:16 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards? Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2014-09-23 14:45 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-23 10:08 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-23 10:03 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-23 13:52 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-22 20:53 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 15:00 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-09-22 22:14 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 15:51 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-23 10:17 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-23 13:57 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-23 18:28 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-22 04:39 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? langwadt@fonz.dk - 2014-09-20 16:33 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-20 22:17 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? langwadt@fonz.dk - 2014-09-21 12:24 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-22 00:00 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2014-09-19 23:15 +0000
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-19 07:58 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-19 10:41 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-19 07:59 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-19 03:08 -0400
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-19 01:17 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2014-09-19 21:15 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-09-20 14:36 -0500
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2014-09-19 10:02 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-19 04:20 -0400
          Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2014-09-18 16:20 +0200
            Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-18 10:25 -0700
              Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2014-09-19 09:36 +0200
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-19 01:27 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2014-09-19 21:35 -0700
                Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-20 11:54 -0700
          Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? mroberds@att.net - 2014-09-18 19:33 +0000
            Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-18 13:18 -0700
          Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Przemek Klosowski <przemek@tux.dot.org> - 2014-09-21 12:34 +0000
            Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? krw@attt.bizz - 2014-09-21 11:54 -0400
    Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2014-09-17 08:10 -0700
    Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-09-17 15:11 +0000
    Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-09-17 22:53 -0500
  Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-09-17 13:33 -0700
    Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-09-18 03:35 -0500
  Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Allan Herriman <allanherriman@hotmail.com> - 2014-09-18 13:16 +0000
  Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-09-25 13:51 +0300
    Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? dplatt@coop.radagast.org (David Platt) - 2014-09-25 09:58 -0700
      Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-09-29 21:46 +0300
    Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> - 2014-09-25 10:07 -0700
      Re: Intel Atom:  pros/cons/hazzards? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-09-25 18:32 -0400
  Re: Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards? "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2014-10-10 09:53 +0000

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