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Re: hexump.c

From Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: hexump.c
Date 2011-09-14 12:16 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <lnty8f9bpa.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <slrnj6tqu4.2bf0.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <j4n4gb$o81$1@speranza.aioe.org> <ln39fzby0w.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <j4q0e1$9q3$1@dont-email.me> <j4q4kt$lgr$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> writes:
> Le 14/09/11 12:40, BartC a écrit :
>> "Keith Thompson" <kst-u@mib.org> wrote in message
>> news:ln39fzby0w.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org...
>>
>>> But consider this: students who learned to program on a PDP-11 or a VAX
>>> are probably no longer using those systems.
>>
>> I bet they were taught a bunch of other stuff that was also specific to
>> those systems and which is now irrelevant, but still managed to
>> gradually progress to new systems without too much trouble.
>>
>> And the chances are that a couple of decades later, they will be using a
>> different language anyway, if they are still even programming.
>
> This obsession with portability reaches here new heights...
>
> Programs must be written (by beginners) such that they run still
> unmodified in 20 years, so the children of the students can peek into
> their father's homework and copy it unmodified.

That's not what I wrote.  It barely even resembles what I wrote.

I even explicitly acknowledged that it might be appropriate to
ignore the issue of whether argv[0] can be null in a tutorial.

The point is not for a little program to be usable without change
20 years later.  (But if you *can* easily write it so it's usable
years later, why not do it?)

The point is that the language has a standard, and it has a standard
for good reasons.  You seem to be advocating ignoring the parts of
the standard that don't fit into your idea of how implementations
happen to work in 2011.

Should we throw away the parts of the standard that don't happen
to apply to the implementations that most people use today?
Would you like to publish a revised C standard that guarantees that
argv[0] != NULL?  That CHAR_BIT==8?  That INT_MAX >= 0x7FFFFFFF?
That INT_MAX == 0x7FFFFFFF?  That all pointers have the same
size and representation?  That a null pointer is all-bits-zero?
That the address space is linear and monolithic?  That pointers to
distinct object can meaningfully be compared?

That the underlying architecture is x86?

Does the very idea of checking whether argv[0] == NULL offend you?

[snip ad-hominem nonsense]

Of course you can write non-portable code in C.  That's one of the
languages greetest strengths, that you can get close the hardware
and write code that does what it needs to do.  But I think it's
important to be aware of when you're writing portable code (by which
I mean code that depends only on what's guaranteed by the language
standard) and when you're writing non-portable code.

Now, jacob, feel free to quote me out of context, misinterpret what
I wrote, and personally insult me for no apparent reason.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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Thread

hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-09 22:53 +0200
  Re: hexump.c tea strainer <nospam@nospam.com> - 2011-09-09 21:06 +0000
    Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-09 23:57 +0200
    Re: hexump.c NicStevens <nic.stevens@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 13:22 -0700
  Re: hexump.c Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 09:18 +1200
    Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-09 23:59 +0200
  Re: hexump.c Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2011-09-09 22:29 +0000
    Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 00:39 +0200
      Re: hexump.c Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2011-09-09 22:53 +0000
        Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 00:58 +0200
        Re: hexump.c Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-09-13 06:44 +0000
          Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-13 10:33 +0200
            Re: hexump.c Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201109.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-09-13 18:02 +0200
            Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-09-13 16:36 -0400
              Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-13 22:44 +0200
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-14 13:31 +0100
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-14 15:27 +0200
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2011-09-14 11:49 -0400
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-14 13:27 -0700
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2011-09-14 20:59 +0000
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-14 22:20 +0100
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-09-14 17:20 -0400
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2011-09-15 01:51 +0000
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-14 19:29 -0700
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-14 19:21 -0700
                Re: Teaching C Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2011-09-14 19:58 -0700
                Re: Teaching C Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-09-14 21:55 -0600
                Re: Teaching C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-09-15 06:54 -0400
                Re: Teaching C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-15 11:58 -0700
                Re: Teaching C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 12:57 -0800
                Re: Teaching C Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-15 14:25 +0100
                Re: Teaching C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-09-16 22:00 +0000
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-09-14 12:54 -0400
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-09-14 13:26 -0400
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-14 19:33 +0200
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) jameskuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-09-14 11:33 -0700
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-14 21:17 +0200
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-09-16 11:47 -0400
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-09-14 20:43 +0000
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-14 22:35 +0100
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) gordonb.8a7i1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-09-14 17:31 -0500
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-14 19:32 +0200
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-09-16 11:27 -0400
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-09-16 08:49 -0700
                Re: Teaching C (was Re: hexump.c) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-09-17 15:04 -0400
            Re: hexump.c Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-13 20:31 -0700
              Re: hexump.c Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-09-14 03:22 -0700
              Re: hexump.c "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-09-14 11:40 +0100
                Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-14 13:54 +0200
                Re: hexump.c Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-14 13:50 +0100
                Re: hexump.c Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-14 11:35 -0700
                Re: hexump.c Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-09-14 19:12 +0000
                Re: hexump.c John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2011-09-14 15:31 -0700
                Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 00:59 +0200
                Re: hexump.c Kleuskes & Moos <kleuske@somewhere.else.net> - 2011-09-14 23:14 +0000
                Re: hexump.c John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 08:52 -0700
                Re: hexump.c Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-09-14 21:22 +0200
                Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-14 21:26 +0200
                Re: hexump.c Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 07:32 +1200
                Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-14 21:44 +0200
                Re: hexump.c Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-14 13:49 -0700
                Re: hexump.c Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-09-16 00:50 +0300
                Re: hexump.c Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-15 18:34 -0700
                Re: hexump.c Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-14 12:16 -0700
                Hypocrites jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-14 21:40 +0200
                Re: Hypocrites Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-09-14 19:11 -0700
                Re: hexump.c Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-09-14 15:05 +0100
                Re: hexump.c Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-09-14 07:56 -0700
                Re: hexump.c "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-09-14 17:23 +0100
              Re: hexump.c Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-09-14 19:12 +0000
              Re: hexump.c John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2011-09-14 15:24 -0700
      Re: hexump.c gordonb.ik17p@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-09-09 18:16 -0500
        Re: hexump.c Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-12 22:24 +0000
  Re: hexump.c "Morris Keesan" <mkeesan@post.harvard.edu> - 2011-09-09 20:33 -0400
    Re: hexump.c Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 12:42 +1200
      Re: hexump.c "Morris Keesan" <mkeesan@post.harvard.edu> - 2011-09-10 17:16 -0400
    Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 10:03 +0200
  Re: hexump.c Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-10 10:04 +0100
    Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 11:41 +0200
      Re: hexump.c pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-09-10 05:51 -0400
        Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 12:38 +0200
          Re: hexump.c Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-10 17:53 +0100
  Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 12:46 +0200
    Re: hexump.c Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-09-10 13:03 +0100
      Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 15:34 +0200
    Re: hexump.c "Morris Keesan" <mkeesan@post.harvard.edu> - 2011-09-10 17:37 -0400
      Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-11 00:10 +0200
        Re: hexump.c Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2011-09-10 21:03 -0700
  Re: hexump.c Barry Schwarz <schwarz45@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-11 00:37 -0700
    Re: hexump.c jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-11 13:56 +0200

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