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Groups > comp.lang.c > #54502

Re: which one is better

From Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: which one is better
Date 2014-12-14 12:44 -0800
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <ln7fxuhsh4.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <Rj3jw.110067$ot.37232@fx13.am4> <lnk31vi15f.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <pp5jw.114545$WK6.54104@fx02.am4> <lnfvcij4w0.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <n_ejw.99007$tr6.14200@fx15.am4>

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BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 14/12/2014 03:18, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>> I believe in allowing a choice, so for a signed int type of exactly
>>> 32-bits, it's possible to write int:32, int*4, int32 or i32 (the latter
>>> two being built-in aliases of int:32). But it's best to keep to one style.
>>
>> I disagree that allowing multiple options that all mean the same
>> thing is a good thing.  Unless there's some difference in meaning
>> (to the reader, if not to the compiler) between int32 and i32,
>> I personally would prefer to pick one form and stick to it.
>
> But we're in a C newsgroup where, if I'm not mistaken, each of these 
> declarations will likely specify a 32-bit signed int type:
>
> int a;
> signed a;
> const a;
> int32_t a;
> int signed a; /* plus many more combinations */

"const a;" is a syntax error in modern C, though many compilers still
permit it (with a warning if you ask nicely).

int32_t may or may not be the same same size as int, and may or may not
be the same type as int.

Each of the intN_t and uintN_t types is very likely to be a typedef for
one of the fundamental integer types
(signed|unsigned) (char|short|int|long|long long).  They're defined that
way because they were introduced relatively late in the language's
development, and were layered on top of the existing types.

IMHO it's best to treat each of them as a distinct type, while being
aware that behind the scenes they're actually defined as synonyms for
fundamental types.

That means, for example, that if I want to print an int32_t value, I'll
cast it to long and use "%ld" (yes, I know about PRId32), while keeping
in mind that printing it with "%d" and no cast won't necessarily give me
a warning.

Anyway, I've never argued that C's use of multiple forms for the name of
the same type (there are 19 valid names for long long, for example) is a
good idea.  It evolved by the gradual addition of qualifiers to the
existing types.  Early C (based on a manual from 1974) didn't have the
"unsigned", "short", or "long" keywords; the only integer types were
char and int.

BTW, the valid names for long long are:

    long long
    long long int
    long int long
    int long long
    signed long long
    long signed long
    long long signed
    int long long signed
    int long signed long
    int signed long long
    long int long signed
    long int signed long
    long long int signed
    long long signed int
    long signed int long
    long signed long int
    signed int long long
    signed long int long
    signed long long int

If I were designing a C-like language from scratch, with no concern for
backward compatibility but keeping the existing type structure, I'd
probably define a distinct keyword for each type, perhaps something like
char, uchar, schar, sint, usint, int, uint, lint, ulint, llint, ullint.

> And where you frequently see posted code that includes lines such as:
>
> i32 a;
> s32 a; /* and other combinations */
>
> because people like using abbreviated versions of int32_t, but everyone 
> creates their own typedefs as there are no standard short forms.

IMHO int32_t is short enough.  Defining your own shorter aliases merely
saves typing at the cost of readability and consistency.  There was an
excuse for creating such type names before C99 introduced <stdint.h>.
That excuse is gone.

> And then, it is also possible for short or long types to be 32-bits as well.

short and long are still distinct types, even if they happen to have the
same size as int.  If your language doesn't have such an overlap, that's
great, but C does.

> So in all, there could dozens of ways of declaring the same 32-bit int 
> type. Perhaps my 4 or 5 variations aren't so many after all!

Certainly 4 or 5 is less than, say, 19.  But surely 1 is better than 4
or 5.  What exactly do you gain by having more than one name for the
same type, when the different names convey no extra information?  Why
settle for being a little simpler than C when you can be a lot simpler
than C?

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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Thread

which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-07 14:48 -0800
  Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-07 16:14 -0800
    Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-08 01:28 +0000
      Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-07 19:01 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-08 00:32 -0800
      Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-08 01:40 -0800
  which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-07 19:00 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-08 00:35 -0800
      Re: which one is better gordonb.7ngx1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 06:28 -0600
        Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 13:08 +0000
          Re: which one is better Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-16 23:49 -0500
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 05:15 -0800
          Re: which one is better gordonb.9nipv@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-17 02:22 -0600
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:21 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:21 -0600
  Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 12:34 +0100
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 05:33 -0800
      Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:27 +0100
      Re: which one is better gordonb.cx8yb@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 06:58 -0600
    Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 15:05 +0000
      Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:31 +0100
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:11 +0000
          Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 18:44 +0100
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:19 -0800
            Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:07 +0000
              Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 20:52 +0000
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 22:10 +0000
              Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 22:57 +0100
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 15:34 +0000
        Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:45 +0100
          Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:56 -0800
            Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 16:08 +0000
            Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 17:19 +0100
              Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:35 -0800
            Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:09 +0000
              Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 09:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:13 +0000
            Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-11 20:18 +0000
              Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 12:57 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 01:55 -0600
                Re: which one is better Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2014-12-12 03:03 -0500
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 02:30 -0600
                Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-14 04:03 +0000
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:04 +0000
    Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:53 -0800
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 17:49 +0000
      Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:18 -0800
        Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:43 -0800
          Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 11:50 -0800
          Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 12:10 -0800
            Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 20:30 +0000
              Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:19 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:32 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.ygnb6@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 08:00 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 06:23 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.ne8xc@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-17 02:38 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.dwhy1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-19 02:50 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-19 05:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:48 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:21 -0800
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 01:53 +0200
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 00:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 11:33 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 02:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 12:35 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:53 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 12:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:45 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 14:50 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:16 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:36 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 16:42 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 18:06 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:09 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 14:51 +0100
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-18 08:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 08:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-18 10:56 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 12:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-18 12:55 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:12 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:19 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:41 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:49 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:09 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:22 -0800
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-23 12:32 +0200
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-24 02:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:35 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 22:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 22:00 +0000
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-11 22:08 +0000
              Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-11 15:38 -0800
              Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-12 02:29 +0000
          Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:26 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 12:56 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 02:05 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 00:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:24 -0600
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:17 +0000
    Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 01:14 +0200
  Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:15 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:25 -0800
      Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 15:00 +0000
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:28 -0800
          Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:42 -0800
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:01 -0800
              Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:37 -0800
          Re: which one is better Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-12-14 05:46 +0000
  Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:14 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:26 -0800
    Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:32 -0800
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 16:45 +0000
      Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-12 02:35 +0000
        Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 20:36 -0800
          Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-12 05:14 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 06:20 -0800
          Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 09:23 +0000
            Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 10:22 +0000
              Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 10:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 11:11 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 04:47 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 13:25 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:15 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:49 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 01:50 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 02:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:36 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 13:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 14:56 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 07:08 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 07:32 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 15:36 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 08:26 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 10:27 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 07:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 09:57 +0100
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 09:54 +0100
                Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 10:03 -0800
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 11:14 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 11:46 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 12:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 12:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 02:11 +0200
              Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-14 04:15 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 21:19 -0800
          Re: which one is better Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-12 22:51 -0500
      Re: which one is better gordonb.3w2i6@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 09:09 -0600
  Re: which one is better Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-11 16:12 -0600
    Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 14:29 -0800
      Re: which one is better Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-11 17:32 -0600
        Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 15:39 -0800
          Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-11 23:55 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 15:57 -0800
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 00:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 16:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 10:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 03:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:52 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 13:00 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 13:51 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 13:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 15:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 15:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 16:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 17:51 -0800
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-12 21:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-13 01:40 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 18:17 -0800
                Re: which one is better Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-13 02:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 10:25 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 13:43 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 22:44 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 15:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 01:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 19:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 12:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-14 12:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-14 20:57 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 13:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 13:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 14:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 14:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 15:08 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 15:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 00:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 08:05 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 00:25 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 14:33 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-14 23:28 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 15:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 01:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 02:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:02 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:13 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:26 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 11:19 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:50 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 11:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:50 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 18:57 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:39 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:43 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 05:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 12:43 +0100
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 14:03 +0100
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 13:28 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 06:09 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 06:35 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:13 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 14:06 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:53 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 19:20 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 12:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 12:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:05 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 11:32 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:38 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 17:20 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 09:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 17:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-15 10:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:01 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.3j8fq@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 10:18 -0600
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-15 18:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:37 -0800
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-15 21:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 22:22 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 15:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 17:25 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 02:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:20 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:37 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 05:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 01:41 +0000
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:33 -0600
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-18 00:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 21:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-14 15:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 16:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 00:54 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 10:55 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 11:11 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:01 +1300
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 10:09 +0100
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 15:58 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 15:41 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 18:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-13 08:42 +1300
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 19:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 07:39 -0800
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 16:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-12 08:16 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 16:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 14:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 06:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 16:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 08:28 -0800
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 15:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 14:39 +0000
                Re: which one is better Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2014-12-12 11:11 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 09:34 -0800
    Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-12 21:47 +1300
      Re: which one is better Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2014-12-16 12:30 -0500
        Re: which one is better Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 12:21 -0600
          Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 13:06 -0600
            Re: which one is better Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 16:44 -0600
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 18:21 -0600
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 01:04 -0800
      Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 02:06 -0800
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 02:24 -0800

csiph-web