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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #240721

Re: Apple has more record earnings

From Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: Apple has more record earnings
Date 2014-04-28 23:53 +0200
Organization SMP
Message-ID <ljmil6$2fs$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <5_qdnSBQS_K9E8POnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@bresnan.com> <ljm3e5$9sk$2@dont-email.me> <LM2dnRTQbtqwBMPOnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@bresnan.com> <ljm8li$msj$1@dont-email.me> <ljmhiu$pv5$2@dont-email.me>

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Silver Slimer wrote:

> On 2014-04-28 3:03 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/28/2014 11:33 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>> On 2014-04-28 1:21 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> As of 2010, Hadron is correct. The same game running natively in
>>>>>> Ubuntu vs native Windows is likely to run better if it's an OpenGL
>>>>>> game. However, when using Wine, a GNU/Linux user will indeed expect
>>>>>> worse performance than in Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is a post on Ubuntu's forums about it. It's fairly detailed:
>>>>>> http://askubuntu.com/questions/163903/gaming-performance-difference-between-windows-and-ubuntu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And another from Phoronix:
>>>>>> 
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=wine_win7_2010&num=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, it should be noted that many of the newer games are coming
>>>>>> straight to GNU/Linux so the advantage of Windows in this area might
>>>>>> be disappearing. Performance-wise, OpenGL games run somewhat better
>>>>>> under GNU/Linux so if the companies, smartly, decide to develop for
>>>>>> that instead of DirectX, GNU/Linux is likely to become the #1 choice
>>>>>> in a few years.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The OpenGL choice would help it be able to run across a few linux
>>>>> distros.  But the DirectX for windows  always has been a bit faster
>>>>> than
>>>>> GL on windows.  Problem with directx is that is isn't that easy to
>>>>> program.
>>>>
>>>> I actually don't understand why DirectX is used considering OpenGL
>>>> seems to be superior in every way IN ADDITION to being available on all
>>>> platforms ensuring that a release can be made available without
>>>> discrimination or delay for all operating systems. I can only assume
>>>> that DirectX is used either because it's what the programmers the game
>>>> companies hire learned or because Microsoft is somehow encouraging its
>>>> use.
>>>>
>>> I think it is just Microsofts aversion to OpenGL.  It is provided but it
>>> is version 1.2.  DirectX does run faster a bit than OpenGL, but not by
>>> much.
>>
>> In windows, DirectX runs faster because OpenGL is emulated in big parts
>> by converting calls to it to DirectX ones, and converting back the return
>> values. Windows has not had a real OpenGL stack since a long time.
> 
> Ah! That's an excellent answer. However, WHY would there have to be a
> process of conversion? Is it simply due to Microsoft refusing to include
> a decent OpenGL stack in Windows? There have to be ways around it.
> 

They once had a full OpenGL stack in windows, but that is long ago.
They seemed to think that it would be easier for them to just emulate OpenGL 
trough DirectX, and maybe thats even true. But it makes OpenGL games 
sligthly slower, although not by much.

The conversion process (both on entry and exit) has to take place, since 
DirectX assumes different variables and order of those for a lot of calls.
So when calling OpenGL with its expected entries, those values have to be 
converted by a small shim to the ones DirectX expects. When return values 
are present, they have to be converted to those OpenGL programs would 
expect. This adds a small amount of overhead for most OpenGL calls

I have never programmed any stuff like games, as it does not interest me, 
but I heard that at first DirectX was easier to program for than OpenGL. 
This advantage has now vanished, now it seems easier to program for OpenGL 
as DirectX got more complicated by every version, whereas OpenGL also got 
more comprehensive, but evolved more naturally. But that is naturally only 
really true for people who have similar amounts of experience for both 
environments.

Feature wise both DirectX and OpenGL seem to be on a par, some features are 
better in DirectX and others are better in OpenGL. Neither one has much of 
any advantage over the other.

*But* OpenGL has the advantage of being supported on more platforms, 
including Android, iOS and OSX. This could tip the support in OpenGLs 
direction

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Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-25 19:42 -0500
  Re: Apple has more record earnings 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-25 20:45 -0400
  Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-25 17:48 -0700
    Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-25 18:02 -0700
    Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 00:42 -0500
      Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-25 22:56 -0700
        Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 01:11 -0500
        Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 11:00 -0500
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 09:49 -0700
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Sinister Midget <fardblossom@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 20:09 +0000
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 13:17 -0700
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-26 15:38 -0500
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-26 13:12 -0700
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 13:16 -0700
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 16:26 -0400
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-26 15:39 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 17:50 -0400
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-26 13:58 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 17:52 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 23:59 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 01:01 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 21:19 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-28 07:34 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-26 19:19 -0600
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 17:11 -0500
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 17:07 -0500
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-26 17:36 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 01:00 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 17:26 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 19:44 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:06 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings William Poaster <wp@induh-vidual.net> - 2014-04-27 09:52 +0100
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 21:20 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:26 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings "Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> - 2014-04-27 22:21 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 13:23 -0700
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-26 16:00 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 19:29 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 17:43 -0700
      Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-27 18:45 -0700
  Re: Apple has more record earnings Richard Starkey <nobody@ringo.jpunix.net> - 2014-04-26 02:44 -0400
    Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 08:15 -0500
      Re: Apple has more record earnings William Poaster <wp@induh-vidual.net> - 2014-04-26 14:21 +0100
        Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 10:24 -0500
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 09:50 -0700
        Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 09:47 -0700
        Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-26 13:11 -0400
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 10:24 -0700
          Re: Apple has more record earnings Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 23:53 +0200
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 00:07 +0200
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-26 17:35 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 00:57 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-26 19:56 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:06 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 01:24 +0000
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:26 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-26 21:27 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 18:37 -0700
                To get -your- job done, buy a PC.  Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2014-04-26 19:07 -0700
                Re: To get -your- job done, buy a PC.  Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 19:11 -0700
                Re: To get -your- job done, buy a PC. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 20:26 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-27 11:19 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-27 17:46 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 09:30 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-27 12:46 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-27 13:39 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings "Cola Zealot" <Cola_Zealot@fuckoff.com> - 2014-04-27 22:30 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 13:35 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 14:41 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-28 15:51 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 16:00 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 12:20 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 11:21 -0600
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 13:33 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 12:08 -0600
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 21:03 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 13:27 -0600
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 17:35 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 14:49 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 23:53 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 18:11 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 17:28 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings William Poaster <wp@induh-vidual.net> - 2014-04-28 22:47 +0100
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 18:04 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-27 13:37 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 12:33 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2014-04-27 19:39 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 09:14 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-04-28 05:46 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 03:37 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 13:00 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2014-04-28 08:22 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-28 14:37 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 09:25 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2014-04-28 08:22 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2014-04-28 13:00 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 12:08 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2014-04-28 18:05 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 19:42 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 16:52 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-04-28 15:49 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 12:11 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 11:26 -0600
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 13:37 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 10:58 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 17:19 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 14:31 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 16:14 -0600
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 18:28 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-29 00:37 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 18:44 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-29 01:09 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 19:52 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-04-29 00:26 +0200
                Re: Apple has more record earnings chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-29 06:54 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 12:11 -0600
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 17:32 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 12:52 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-28 14:05 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-04-28 15:11 -0600
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-28 12:51 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2014-04-27 18:56 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 20:40 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-28 08:51 -0400
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 17:31 -0700
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-27 11:13 -0400
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 09:29 -0700
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 17:33 -0700
            Re: Apple has more record earnings Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-04-27 11:06 -0400
              Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 09:24 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2014-04-27 13:41 -0500
                Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-27 12:33 -0700
                Re: Apple has more record earnings chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-28 07:59 -0500
      Re: Apple has more record earnings Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-04-26 09:50 -0700
  Re: Apple has more record earnings Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> - 2014-04-26 04:12 -0500

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