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Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing?

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Mark Wills wrote:

> On Thursday, 3 April 2014 11:12:30 UTC+1, Andrew Haley  wrote:
>> 
>> How would it be zero sum if all software were to be free?
>> 
> Because (the argument goes) it's an economic race to the bottom.

Ouch.  Free market economy theory tells you that competition drives costs 
down.  The marginal costs of software have always been close to zero 
(additional copies are cheap), so software, once developed, is dirt cheap.  
If there is a free market, of course.  The mercantilistic way copyrigth 
works means that there is no free market.  Well, copyleft is a game-changer, 
and it results in a way more free market than before.

The cost of software is the cost of writing the first copy.  Ok, there are 
some costs of deployment, and there is the "works for me" effect, which 
means that it doesn't yet work for everybody else, and you have to fix the 
bugs that show up only on other's computers.

But in the end, the job and the task which needs payment is to create and 
maintain the software, not the copies.  And as long as people want and need 
better software, and as long as those experts who write software are a 
scarce resource, money will flow.  This is a law of free market economy.

>> I think Bernd has somewhat mischaracterized Stallman's argument.  IIRC
>> Stallman said that supporting free software on Windows didn't help
>> free software because Widows users tend not to contribute.  I don't
>> think that is universally true, but IME it is a tendency.
> 
> Speaking as a 20+ year (pretty much) exclusive Windows user, I would agree
> with that. Windows users are, in the main, takers.

The somewhat strange thing is that the feedback I get from Android users is 
better than any other feedback I got so far.  I don't think they are a 
different kind of people than Windows consumers (after all, it's a 80% 
market share OS), it's just that Google provides the tools to give feedback 
with its Play Store.  This feedback path is a valuable infrastructure for 
software developers, and Google makes it easy enough for people to use it.

>> Let's first get our facts straight.  I write free software.  It is
>> also commercial software.  There is no intrinsic conflict between
>> freedom and commerce.
> 
> Tell that to Microsoft. Or Oracle. Even better, tell that to Sun. If you
> can find anyone, that is.

Sun did a lot of free software stuff, and was doing quite well.  Oracle 
bought them, because Oracle wanted to have one of their free software 
product: Java.  It's still free software.  Seems you don't have a conclusive 
argument.

>> Stallman's argument is based on ethics: in his view, proprietary
>> software is immoral.  So yes, of course he wants the end of
>> proprietary sofware.  As he put it,
>> "I'm often asked to describe the 'advantages' of free software. But
>> the word 'advantages' is too weak when it comes to freedom. Life
>> without freedom is oppression, and that applies to computing as well
>> as every other activity in our lives. We must refuse to give the
>> owners of the programs or computing services control over the
>> computing we do."
>> 
> Oh what a load of leftist bollocks. "Freedom".

"Freedom" is leftist?  Now you are deep in bollocks land.  Very deep.  
Godwin's law deep.  Free market economy is not leftist.  Free speech is not 
leftist.  Unless, of course, you are so deep into the right that it appears 
to be.

> FFS! Like someone is
> putting a gun to one's head, forcing people to buy a particular software
> product. You are free to NOT buy whatever the hell you like.

Actually, Stallman was opposing to the law which made software proprietary 
by default (this was a pretty new law back then, before, software was not 
under copyright).  There was no choice.  He was the one who actually gave us 
the choice back.  We can now decide if we buy proprietary software or get 
free software instead.  He hacked the copyright system so that this could 
become possible.

> "Life without freedom is oppression, and that applies to computing as well
> as every other activity in our lives."
> 
> I'm just speechless at the shite that this guy spouts. And people worship
> him like he's fucking Che Guevara or something. Spare me.
> 
> Enough. Now I'm just getting pissed off! We're 15 posts into this thread
> and it's already descended into a load of waffly bollocks.
> 
> I'm out.

Hopefully.  This wasn't a brilliant contribution.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Thread

Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-01 00:10 +0100
  Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@posteo.de> - 2014-04-01 06:34 +0200
    Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2014-04-01 00:19 -0700
  Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-04-01 15:53 +0000
    Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2014-04-01 13:12 -0700
      Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-01 23:06 +0200
        Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2014-04-01 14:42 -0700
        Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2014-04-01 18:04 -0700
          Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@posteo.de> - 2014-04-02 09:41 +0200
            Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-02 12:27 +0200
              Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2014-04-02 10:35 -0700
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-02 20:49 +0200
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2014-04-02 16:44 -0700
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-03 05:12 -0500
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-03 04:14 -0700
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-03 08:26 -0500
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-03 23:04 +0200
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-04 02:36 -0400
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-04 03:38 -0500
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-04 15:19 +0200
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-04 18:03 -0400
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-05 09:12 -0500
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-05 15:37 +0100
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-07 23:25 -0700
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-08 06:13 -0400
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-04-03 12:39 +0100
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-03 08:33 -0500
                Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-03 10:47 +0000
  Re: Maximum heap memory available to GForth when allot-ing? hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-04-01 16:36 -0700

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