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Re: Cooling a HP desktop

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On 2026-06-07 09:09, Paul wrote:
> On Sat, 6/6/2026 1:19 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2026-06-06 17:38, sticks wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2026 12:26 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 6/4/2026 10:23 AM, sticks wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> In fact, the other day, I had to make myself a drawing
>>>> of how the fans are wired in the machine across from me,
>>>> as every time it does something annoying, I can't remember
>>>> which wire or function controls it. Now I have the drawing
>>>> to look at, before I walk over there. The computer case
>>>> comes with a "fan manifold" PCB, the CPU fan header goes
>>>> into the board, and six headers come out of the board.
>>>> And then you have to remember which fans are running off
>>>> CPU-sensitive control and which fans run off a separate
>>>> header. And the drawing helps with that. If I re-do the fans,
>>>> then the drawing will get updated.
>>>
>>> It really is a little sad that they've made it this difficult to control the temperature of your systems.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a box in an area without summer climate control where it is gonna get hot and humid.  For now, the combination of FanControl and Mouse Jiggler is working nicely and I'm going to leave it alone and continue monitoring.
>>
>> The only way to run computers in a humid place for a  long time, is to seal the computers or use AC.
>>
> 
> You can buy computers that are hardened, with the
> expectation of an exotic working environment.
> 
> Some HP machines, have had a 50C ambient spec, and
> having spec in hand, we placed a HP machine in our
> walk-in thermal chamber. Some of the other test
> equipment in that chamber was rated for 50C as well.
> And then we would run the whole shebang up to 50C,
> including the DUT, and the HP computer worked just
> fine under those conditions. That was not a "humidity
> test run" because we didn't want to die in the chamber.
> 
> Using test chambers, you can absolutely destroy equipment,
> but then you're violating the "95% humidity, non-condensing"
> limitation, and allowing liquid to condense on the surface
> of the DUT. A rugged computer would stop that
> moist air from getting to the PCB.
> 
> Using heat pipes, you can seal a device up, and
> still have a conduction path for the heat. Zalman made
> a couple computer cases, one costing $1000, and there
> were heat pipes in there compatible with various
> graphics card designs. And the heat would flow to
> heatsink fins on the outside of the "box". This was
> intended for applications such as recording studios.
> There may still be a need to swirl a bit of air around
> the internal parts of the cabinet, to prevent hot spots
> (on things not having heatpipes fitted). While the box
> may have had a 400W ATX supply in it at the time (fanless),
> it wasn't really a good idea with that kit, to push it that
> hard. And that would not be suitable for 95% humidity,
> as it may not be sealed well enough to separate the
> inside from the outside.
> 
> Circuits have been "potted" in the past. The Ethernet
> transceivers we used to use, those were potted and quite heavy.
> If you were wearing sneakers and dropped one of those
> on your foot, that would sting. Whether that kept the
> environment totally at bay, is hard to say. To do that today,
> would likely cost a lot more than it cost back in the
> potting era.
> 
> At one time, integrated circuits shipped in hermetically
> sealed packages, with a glass frit seal between the two
> halves. And then at some point, they used plastic instead
> and nobody gave a damn any more about the environmental part
> of it. The ceramic ICs were "MIL spec" and worked from -55C
> to 125C, and things like moisture should not be getting
> through the ceramic. That kind of packaging was quite popular
> on the ECL logic boards we made -- when you used an oscilloscope
> on such boards, you would lay your hand on a hundred ECL chips
> running at 55-60C, and that takes, um, "discipline" to do.
> You get a bit used to it, after a while [he said, wincing a bit].
> ECL just loves the heat, and really, it's not happy until
> it is quite warm. If you have a cooling failure on some
> of these designs, you may have to wait ten minutes for the
> thing to be cool enough to take apart. The chips in that
> case, were still running in mission mode just fine and
> they were not complaining.
> 
> CMOS, which is what your computer is filled with, does not
> like the heat, and the logic runs slower the hotter it gets.
> 
> The guy at the fab told me that for our CMOS process,
> above 130C die temperature, there could be parametric
> shift after 100,000 hours, and that's one of the
> definitions of lifetime. And you can see in that case,
> where a MIL spec figure would come from. When you push
> ICs to 300C, they last around 1000 hours, for borehole
> microcontrollers. Let us hope the garage isn't 300C.

:-)

When Personal Computers boom started, some navy chap here though of 
buying one for the submarine he worked at. So he bought I think it was, 
an Amstrad 1512 PC from a shop, with a warranty. The computer run fine, 
till they put out to sea.

So they had the computer replaced.

And it broke down again.

Then the shop owner asked where exactly are you using it? They told him, 
in a navy submarine. The shop removed the warranty instantly.

The vibrations from the diesel were killing the hard disk, way faster 
than temperatures or humidity :-D


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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Cooling a HP desktop sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2026-05-31 19:07 -0500
  Re: Cooling a HP desktop sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2026-05-31 20:31 -0500
    Re: Cooling a HP desktop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-05-31 23:19 -0400
      Re: Cooling a HP desktop sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2026-06-01 15:15 -0500
        Re: Cooling a HP desktop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:31 -0400
          Re: Cooling a HP desktop sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2026-06-03 17:18 -0500
            Re: Cooling a HP desktop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:45 -0400
              Re: Cooling a HP desktop sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2026-06-04 09:23 -0500
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-04 13:26 -0400
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2026-06-06 10:38 -0500
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-06 19:19 +0200
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-07 03:09 -0400
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-07 14:55 +0200
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-07 14:46 -0400
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-07 23:18 +0200
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-07 18:56 -0400
                Re: Cooling a HP desktop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-07 22:09 -0400

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