Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #616952

Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2

From	whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2
Date	2023-08-06 19:52 -0500
Message-ID	<kjati1FrnerU4@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <c7d104df-d9c9-42af-a22b-6ff0038695e9n@googlegroups.com> <kjamfmFr0tbU1@mid.individual.net> <2c5cd587-8a9e-4f69-acb3-41c25c80fac9n@googlegroups.com> <kjargvFrnerU2@mid.individual.net> <8783c52e-e914-4297-8a07-029981336d52n@googlegroups.com>

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On 8/6/2023 7:20 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 5:17:38 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
>> On 8/6/2023 6:23 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 3:52:58 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
>>>> On 8/6/2023 5:05 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 2:56:43 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/6/2023 1:14 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <...>
>>>>>>> Your undisclosed source asserts the clocks were preset before launch. My source did not say it was the first atomic clock in space. Only that it was
>>
>> 1977, and the GPS was 1978. Was there an earlier atomic clock in space?
>> Can't they recalibrate after launch? The point is that c is used in the
>>
>> Schwartzchild metric to allegedly predict the time dilation, yet it has
>> nothing to do with the speed of gravity. The speed of gravity s
>> instantaneous. Black
>>
>> holes have an escape velocity faster than light, so gravity couldn't
>> escape them if gravity moved at light speed. Relativity does not make
>> predictions
>>
>> because illogical predictions have no predictive value. The different
>> rate of the clocks in orbit is an instrumental error and is consistently
>> accountable
>>
>> for. Even Creationists can get some things right. For example, they are
>> very disinclined to idol-worship Einstein. Their extreme skepticism is
>> laudable. You
>>
>> could learn some skepticism. A diamond in a garbage can is still a
>> diamond. Professional journals are garbage cans full of junk science.
>> Essen was correct
>>
>> that to accept relativity, you must forsake science for dogma.
>>
>>>>>> In order to make a claim that gravity has an escape velocity
>>>>>> one must first establish that gravity itself has mass since
>>>>>> "escape velocity" correlates directly with mass, not with
>>>>>> unknown massless entities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But then if gravity has mass it cannot have infinite velocity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the above you're describing a fantasy universe. But then
>>>>>> that's what cranks usually do.
>>
>>>>> It doesn't have infinite velocity. Laplace gives it a velocity many times the speed of light but short of infinite.
>>
>>>> You can't have it both ways. Above you wrote, "The speed of gravity is
>>>> instantaneous" so what is fact, what fiction?
>>
>>> The Newtonian formulas treat it as instantaneous resulting in such high accuracy that the worst error in the solar system dynamics is .43" in mercury's
>>
>> perihelion advance per year. Laplace and several other astronomers have
>> calculated that it must be very close to instantaneous giving a very
>> exponential
>>
>> multiple of the speed of light. They agree that if it were c then it
>> would result in such angular momentum as to throw out the orbital
>> dynamics so much
>>
>> Earth's orbital radii would double in 1,200 years. So that cannot fine
>> tune for a .43" difference.
>> So you do not understand that writing The speed of gravity is
>> instantaneous is exactly the same as saying the speed of
>> gravity is infinite? Are you saying that you don't realize
>> that you are arguing against yourself? For the purpose of
>> this discussion none of your paragraph beginning with "The
>> Newtonian formulas..." has any bearing. That is a separate
>> discussion altogether, one that we are not presently engaged in.

> You might try getting some fresh air and exercise to clear your head.

Thank you. I accept your "end of unresolved discussion" marker.

Thread

Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 00:49 -0700
  Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 13:56 -0700
    Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-02 15:03 -0700
      Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 15:08 -0700
      Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 15:17 -0700
      Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 16:16 -0700
        Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 billv <billv@nowhere.void.net> - 2023-08-02 19:12 -0500
      Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 23:29 -0700
        Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 06:05 -0700
          Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 06:46 -0700
            Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 08:17 -0700
              Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:39 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 11:21 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 11:28 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 12:37 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 12:45 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:15 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:20 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:44 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 13:46 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:20 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 17:57 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:21 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:51 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 13:27 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 21:18 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 23:17 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 23:48 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:05 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-04 11:47 -0500
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:06 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:59 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 15:53 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 12:56 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 13:07 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 22:54 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-04 22:46 -0500
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 10:28 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Vidal Barabashev <dlva@vvhivdbs.ab> - 2023-08-05 17:50 +0000
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:53 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-04 11:54 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 13:01 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 22:59 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 13:43 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:12 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 15:41 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 12:52 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-04 13:03 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 23:28 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 21:42 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 15:02 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-05 12:58 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 19:20 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-05 16:54 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 18:14 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 23:24 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 21:42 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-06 21:22 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 22:35 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Dillan Novoselitsky <doik@olokkeol.la> - 2023-08-07 09:04 +0000
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 11:14 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-06 16:55 -0500
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:05 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-06 17:51 -0500
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 16:23 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-06 19:17 -0500
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 17:20 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-06 19:52 -0500
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-06 22:02 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-06 11:45 +0200
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 10:35 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 21:41 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-06 11:45 +0200
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-05 10:51 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Murel Bah <ulhm@eaamemaa.ml> - 2023-08-05 18:10 +0000
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Liod Shakhtmeister <adlh@emlhsdha.os> - 2023-08-07 08:10 +0000
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 14:50 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-04 22:32 +0200
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 13:53 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 14:40 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:24 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:28 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-06 15:30 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 11:53 -0400
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 10:54 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 16:21 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 16:44 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-06 16:48 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 12:37 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:11 -0700
              Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:40 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:48 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-08-03 11:24 -0700
                Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 12:37 -0700
    Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 billv <billv@nowhere.void.net> - 2023-08-02 18:20 -0500
      Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 17:54 -0700
        Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 billv <billv@nowhere.void.net> - 2023-08-02 22:23 -0500
        Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:34 -0700
      Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 23:31 -0700
    Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 23:27 -0700
  Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2023-08-02 14:26 -0700
  Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-08-03 07:54 +0200
  Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 04:18 -0700
    Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 05:08 -0700
      Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 07:11 -0700
        Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 08:32 -0700
          Re: Time as "what clocks indicate" - part 2 Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 12:26 -0400

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