Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser?

From	Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser?
Date	2017-04-24 10:08 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<kfnfugx68d4.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <egpsncF7ke0U8@mid.individual.net> <o88sf8$ug7$1@dont-email.me> <egqbglF7ke0U10@mid.individual.net> <kfn8tovtscq.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <o8prn7$h46$1@dont-email.me>

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Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:

> On 24/02/17 17:24, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 02/18/17 08:19 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> On 18/02/17 03:18, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> If then language stops me mixing apples and oranges
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing so terribly wrong about mixing apples and oranges.  It
>>>> makes for a rather delicious fruit drink.
>>>
>>> Until you teach into that bag of tasty apples and bite into an orange...
>>>
>>>>> or helps me to
>>>>> automate resource management, I'm all for it.
>>>>
>>>> You know what they say:  Lisp is for people who think resource management
>>>> is far too important to be left to the programmer, and C is for people
>>>> who think resource management is far too important to be left to the
>>>> machine.
>>>
>>> And C++ sits on the fence!
>>
>> Evangelists annoy me.
>
> People who don't see a joke can be mildly trying too, but I generally
> try to put up with them.

Yes, I generally try to ignore minor annoyances, at least for a
while.  If they persist eventually they stop being minor and I
feel obliged to say something.  That is what happened with Ian's
comments.

>> Evangelizing C++ is no more appropriate
>> here than any other off-topic evangelizing.  I'd appreciate it if
>> you would stop doing that.
>
> He didn't start.  "To sit on the fence" means "to be unable to make up
> one's mind", which is not generally considered a positive thing to say
> about anybody or anything.  [...]

That isn't the way I read it, but either way it strikes me as
bringing C++ into (or back into) a conversation for no apparent
reason other than wanting to bring up C++.  And it isn't nearly
the first time he has done that.

> Furthermore, Ian Collins has contributed quite a lot of positive
> stuff to comp.lang.c, and personally I am inclined to cut such
> people a fair amount of slack.

My comments are a response to behavior, not character.  Also I
think what behavior is expected should be the same whether
someone is considered a "good guy" (and I mean nothing negative
by that, despite the so-called scare quotes) or not.  As far as
that goes, if anything the expectations should be /higher/ for
people who want to be recognized as positive contributors;
otherwise it undercuts the message when other folks are asked
to tone down various offending behaviors.

But let me return to your main point about cutting some slack.
I have done that, and then some.  To be sure I'm being fair in
saying that, I reviewed a good-sized sample of Ian's postings
(to comp.lang.c, and no other newsgroups).  Here is a summary.

  31%   C++ related (23% continuing, 8% new)
  10%   C related
   9%   meta (mostly comments about other posters)
   9%   non-specific style
   9%   tools (eg make, IDE's)
   7%   hardware, code generation
  25%   all others (random, general programming, platform, ...)

(These results are for postings made in 2016, with values rounded
to the nearest percent.)

Considering the above, I think I've bent over backwards to cut
Ian some slack.  Do you think there is something wrong with my
making a polite request that he recognize the behavioral pattern
and make some effort to modify it?

Thread

What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:37 -0800
  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 00:05 -0800
    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 00:57 -0800
      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:21 -0800
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:24 -0800
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:10 -0800
  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 03:05 -0800
    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 11:38 +0000
      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 04:28 -0800
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 13:22 +0000
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 05:47 -0800
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 10:06 -0800
      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 05:24 -0800
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 13:57 +0000
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 10:27 -0800
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-15 15:16 +0000
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:14 -0800
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-15 18:01 +0000
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 18:25 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-15 19:14 +0000
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-15 10:25 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 18:45 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 20:03 +0100
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-15 10:12 -0800
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-15 10:51 -0800
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:14 -0800
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 20:25 +0000
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:50 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-16 11:50 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 04:44 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 05:28 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-16 14:32 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-16 09:13 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 10:38 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-16 11:55 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 12:24 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-16 21:32 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 12:55 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-16 22:41 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 14:02 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-16 15:08 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-16 13:32 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-17 21:19 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 12:01 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-17 09:16 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 18:55 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 08:07 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 20:12 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:04 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-17 22:38 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:47 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-17 14:55 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:11 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-02-17 15:26 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-17 16:15 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:22 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-17 16:37 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-18 11:57 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 07:13 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 20:26 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 09:17 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 01:18 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:23 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 01:45 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:18 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 07:19 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 20:30 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 09:18 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-18 07:15 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-24 09:24 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-24 17:51 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-24 10:08 -0700
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-04-24 18:58 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2017-04-26 05:03 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-30 11:21 -0700
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 09:15 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-24 17:29 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-26 06:19 -0700
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 16:04 +0200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 07:08 -0700
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 16:46 +0200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 09:32 -0700
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 20:19 +0200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 11:29 -0700
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-04-26 18:51 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-27 09:32 +1200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-27 11:01 +0200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 02:23 -0700
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-27 21:31 +1200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-04-27 16:15 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-27 09:35 -0700
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 15:12 +0200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 19:13 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-27 11:37 +0200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 15:18 +0200
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 08:43 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 09:22 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-18 09:44 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 11:33 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-18 13:25 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 13:47 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-18 15:23 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 14:53 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 16:56 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-18 22:50 -0600
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 09:45 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-19 13:35 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-18 11:24 -0500
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-18 22:48 -0600
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-18 10:04 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-19 17:12 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-19 11:11 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-19 21:14 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 21:22 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-19 12:33 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-19 12:31 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 13:14 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 14:50 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 15:04 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-20 10:13 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 21:09 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 15:32 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-24 12:44 +1300
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 21:04 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 21:14 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 14:48 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 15:46 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 16:16 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 04:18 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 06:47 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 09:50 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 04:33 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 15:41 +0100
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-21 09:39 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 09:59 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? TickleMe Elmo <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 10:22 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 15:49 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 09:43 -0800
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:31 -0800
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 03:33 -0800
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-15 12:47 -0800
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 13:06 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 13:15 -0800
  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? "Patrick.Schluter" <Patrick.Schluter@free.fr> - 2017-02-18 12:36 +0100
    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? "Patrick.Schluter" <Patrick.Schluter@free.fr> - 2017-02-18 12:41 +0100
  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 09:42 -0700
    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 09:58 -0700

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