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Re: The case AGAINST C

From Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: The case AGAINST C
Date 2018-04-29 22:07 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <kfnbme1l1tt.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> (permalink)
References <pc5tpv$1o5f$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> writes:

> Dr P.J Moylan has written a paper to argue a case against using C.
>
> <ftp://ftp.pmoylan.org/papers/78.The_Case_Against_C.pdf>
>
> He argues that:
>
>> The misplaced loyalty to C is, in my
>> opinion, just as serious a problem among
>> professionals as the BASIC problem is among
>> amateurs.

It's a weak paper.  He likes Modula-2 better than C, and
Modula-3 better than C++.  His main point is that C has less
structure than Modula-2.  Undoubtely true, but not nearly as
big a factor as he seems to think.  His other comments don't
have much substance - they range from strawman arguments to
glossing over factors that weigh in C's favor but that he
would like to dismiss.  His comments about using printf() may
simply reflect how dated (July 1992) the paper is, or they
may result from having used C less than other languages he
likes better.  I agree that Modula-2 is better than C along
some axes.  But there are other axes where C is better, which
he either dismisses as unimportant or ignores altogether.

Summary:  the paper might be interesting to read if you don't
have anything better to do, but don't expect to find any real
substance or deep insights.  It's an op-ed, nothing more.

(And yes I am aware of the irony in saying "if you don't have
anything better to do", which I certainly do. :)

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The case AGAINST C Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-30 02:10 +0000
  Re: The case AGAINST C cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2018-04-30 03:14 +0000
    Re: The case AGAINST C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-30 05:48 -0700
    Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 14:58 +0100
    Re: The case AGAINST C Davs <johndemeert0@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 04:18 -0700
      Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 05:26 -0700
      Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 11:21 -0400
        Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 09:21 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-07 12:13 -0500
          Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 10:24 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 13:27 -0400
            Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-07 17:33 +0000
              Re: The case AGAINST C Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-07 13:50 -0400
              Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 10:56 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 09:26 +0200
          Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 09:19 +0200
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 00:42 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 06:54 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 07:24 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 17:15 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 09:31 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 18:48 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 10:33 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:36 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 15:08 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 00:56 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 16:17 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-08 11:09 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:43 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-08 15:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 00:58 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-09 08:11 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 08:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 11:45 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-09 13:03 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 23:40 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-09 15:48 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-10 13:48 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-10 08:28 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-11 10:06 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 02:22 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 05:29 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-11 13:31 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-11 15:47 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-11 09:16 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-12 17:43 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-12 14:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 00:13 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-10 01:31 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-11 18:01 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-10 08:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-09 09:29 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-10 08:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 04:43 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-08 21:24 -0400
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-09 09:10 +0200
            Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-08 19:52 +0000
              Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-08 23:48 +0200
  Re: The case AGAINST C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-29 22:07 -0700
  Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 12:22 +0100
    Re: The case AGAINST C Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-04-30 12:08 +0000
      Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 13:38 +0100
        Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 06:05 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-30 07:39 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C Ed Kellett <e@kellett.im> - 2018-04-30 15:53 +0100
          Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-30 08:14 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 21:26 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 09:00 -0700
            Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 04:58 -0700
          Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 18:07 +0100
            Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 05:33 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 05:58 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 06:27 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 14:37 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-05-01 13:41 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 16:48 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 10:11 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 11:00 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 19:26 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 11:40 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 12:53 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 22:03 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-02 09:10 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 14:21 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-02 09:26 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-01 15:23 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-02 14:07 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-03 06:28 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-01 23:03 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 04:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 05:12 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 05:34 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-02 14:08 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 07:39 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 17:13 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 11:01 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 21:51 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 08:52 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 22:42 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 09:57 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 23:22 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-03 10:29 +1200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 00:14 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 03:59 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 04:15 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 12:50 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 13:36 -0700
                Of course I get it... (Was: The case AGAINST C) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-05-03 08:44 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 12:42 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 05:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 12:56 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 05:58 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 14:36 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-03 13:27 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 22:43 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-03 15:17 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 00:50 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 15:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-04 11:36 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 08:52 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-04 17:28 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 12:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-05 18:45 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-06 18:43 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:35 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-05-07 13:23 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 06:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 16:25 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 07:32 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 09:09 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 18:12 +0100
                Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 14:07 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 20:03 +0200
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 15:21 -0400
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 13:07 -0700
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 16:13 -0400
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:39 +0200
                Re: Global variables Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 17:50 -0400
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:57 +0200
                Re: Global variables Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 19:56 -0400
                Re: Global variables Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-05-07 03:21 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 09:09 +0200
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-07 08:49 -0700
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 20:55 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:51 +0200
                Re: Global variables Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:40 -0700
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 23:54 +0100
                Re: Global variables Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-05-07 15:12 +1200
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-07 09:03 +0200
                Re: Global variables Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-05-18 20:23 -0700
                Re: Global variables Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-18 20:44 -0700
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-19 17:22 +0200
                Re: Global variables supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-19 11:56 -0700
                Re: Global variables supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-06 16:28 -0700
                Re: Global variables Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-05-06 14:19 -0400
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 20:16 +0100
                Re: Global variables David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 23:09 +0200
                Re: Global variables bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 23:41 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-03 09:13 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 17:29 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-05-03 19:24 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-04 05:46 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-04 10:55 +0000
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 04:03 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 12:31 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-04 05:10 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 13:24 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:26 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:35 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 07:06 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 07:19 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 06:37 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:19 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 12:07 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 16:31 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 08:41 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 09:50 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 10:04 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 13:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 14:30 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 15:14 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-04 11:18 -0500
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 09:05 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 17:55 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 10:54 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 19:18 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 11:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 16:45 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-05-04 11:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-05-04 12:15 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 21:56 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-06 17:01 +0200
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 17:54 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 13:38 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-06 21:49 +0100
                Re: The case AGAINST C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-05-06 17:19 -0400
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:24 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-06 15:16 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 23:55 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 11:59 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 14:51 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 04:46 -0700
                Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 11:45 -0700
              Re: The case AGAINST C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 06:10 -0700
        Re: The case AGAINST C C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-05-02 15:23 +0100
          Re: The case AGAINST C bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-02 17:36 +0100
  Re: The case AGAINST C "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 22:03 +0800
  Re: The case AGAINST C Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2018-05-01 13:46 +0000

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