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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #19452
| From | "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: Parallax Propeller |
| Date | 2013-02-05 06:05 -0500 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <keqoub$in2$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink) |
| References | (4 earlier) <3NidnUj714zFXmvNnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@supernews.com> <nOzJs.2732$Ow3.194@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com> <2bb0e774-9b80-44ae-8873-0d16dbb07335@t6g2000pba.googlegroups.com> <52dbbaee-c41d-4c9e-a053-9e9acfc360b5@f6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <a4032a5a-73c6-485e-8ffa-2ec01da40f51@po6g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> |
"Hugh Aguilar" <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a4032a5a-73c6-485e-8ffa-2ec01da40f51@po6g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
...
> By comparison, Straight Forth will be all about
> supporting modern concepts such as closures ---
People keep telling me C needs this closure concept also. I have
yet to run into some situation that can't be coded in C. I've
coded alot of simple stuff and well as some really complex stuff.
So, what do I need closures for? I suspect the same issue I have
with not needing them is true for Forth too. I.e., closures are
desired by you because it fits your coding style or perhaps your
way of thinking, but they're not _really_ needed. If they're not
*really* needed, should the be present in the language proper?
That's really a question for comp.lang.misc.
However, I think your goal actually requires more than just
eliminating all the ancient Forth cruft. I think you should start
by naming things what they should've be named, e.g., logical not
named NOT, etc. The names need to make sense. ANS and earlier
standards renamed a few things to prevent namespace collisions.
Unfortunately, that means that some names make no sense. That
alienates programmers. Also, I think you should adopt C style
symbol operators instead of using word names, e.g., AND, OR, XOR,
NOT, etc for logical and binary operations. Most currently
successful modern languages have adopted C's style of naming for
such operators. Forth needs some minimal syntax, like braces { },
needs some operators other than +! to manipulate variables
directly, etc. Non-use of variables, specifically, heavy
dependence on the stack, also leads to hard to comprehend code.
Once you get done fixing Forth's problems, is the language still
Forth? I know that question _seems_ silly to you right now, but
it comes directly from my experience with another language: C. In
attempting to create a minimal version of C, once I reduce C to
the minimal language subset of C that is required, fix the
remaining historical language problems, make parsing and compiling
easier, etc, then the language I have left is no longer C anymore.
It's still C looking. It's still C like. But, it's not C. Once
you start radically changing things on your own to "fix" Forth,
i.e., StraightForth, it's not really going to be Forth anymore, at
least not in the classic sense. That's something I think you
haven't truly accepted yet. If you did, we'd be seeing your
progress reports, your questions, your website, etc. I.e.,
StraightForth is a stalled idea since it seems apparent you're not
actually working on it. If you're attempting to inspire interest
in it to attract developers, perhaps you just need to ask.
Rod Pemberton
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Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 06:37 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller MK <mk@nospam.co.uk> - 2013-01-13 10:26 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 12:22 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-13 07:24 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 13:55 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-01-13 17:13 +0200
Re: Parallax Propeller Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-16 06:23 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-16 15:01 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-16 09:12 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-16 15:36 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-16 10:59 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-16 23:38 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-17 04:04 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-17 04:52 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-24 22:48 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:10 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-28 17:42 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-02-05 06:05 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-05 08:41 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-05 10:21 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-05 21:37 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-02-05 10:44 -1000
Re: Parallax Propeller Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-02-05 15:52 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-06 00:29 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-06 00:31 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-06 19:46 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-02-09 00:11 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-09 10:25 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-06 18:26 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-05 15:07 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-05 15:49 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-02-05 06:04 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-05 15:21 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-16 18:09 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller Ben Bradley <ben_u_bradley@etcmail.com> - 2013-01-18 21:07 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2013-01-19 10:06 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Arlet Ottens <usenet+5@c-scape.nl> - 2013-01-19 13:04 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-19 13:22 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-19 13:38 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-01-19 17:12 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-19 16:45 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-01-20 17:49 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-01-19 20:54 +0200
Re: Parallax Propeller Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-19 11:04 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-01-19 23:05 +0200
Re: Parallax Propeller Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-20 01:05 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Arlet Ottens <usenet+5@c-scape.nl> - 2013-01-20 12:11 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-01-20 13:53 +0200
Re: Parallax Propeller upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-01-20 13:26 +0200
Re: Parallax Propeller Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-01-19 14:23 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-01-19 14:18 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-01-20 20:32 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2013-01-20 18:08 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2013-01-20 17:12 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2013-01-20 19:19 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2013-01-20 21:12 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-01-21 09:01 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2013-01-21 21:11 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller upsidedown@downunder.com - 2013-01-22 09:39 +0200
Re: Parallax Propeller Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2013-01-22 10:14 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> - 2013-01-20 02:03 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2013-01-19 12:29 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-23 12:29 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-24 14:03 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-24 22:55 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-24 23:03 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-01-25 20:02 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-28 17:13 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-01-29 09:15 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Anders.Montonen@kapsi.spam.stop.fi.invalid - 2013-01-30 12:19 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-01-30 21:18 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-30 22:57 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-31 10:38 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 12:34 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-19 10:42 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller bob@bob.com - 2013-01-19 19:56 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-23 12:40 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller None <vandys@vsta.org> - 2013-01-24 23:26 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2013-01-25 11:49 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 09:25 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller None <vandys@vsta.org> - 2013-01-25 21:57 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-26 18:07 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-27 00:50 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-27 03:30 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2013-01-27 12:58 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-28 21:38 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller None <vandys@vsta.org> - 2013-01-27 03:09 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-28 21:51 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller None <vandys@vsta.org> - 2013-01-30 02:10 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-30 18:32 -0500
Re: Parallax Propeller David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2013-01-20 11:21 -0600
Re: Parallax Propeller albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-13 16:24 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-01-14 10:51 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-16 06:06 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-01-16 13:43 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-16 15:27 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller Rafael Deliano <rafael_deliano@arcor.de> - 2013-01-15 21:10 +0100
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-16 06:26 +0000
Re: Parallax Propeller gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 06:26 -0800
Re: Parallax Propeller Peter Jakacki <peterjakacki@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 12:44 +0000
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