Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB

From	glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB
Date	2012-12-11 21:09 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<ka87dh$abe$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
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Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> wrote:

(previous snip on pointer offsets)

>>>      A colleague who did some work on IBM's AS/400 (they've
>>> changed the name; I forget the new one) told me that simply
>>> trying to calculate an out-of-range pointer yielded a null
>>> pointer as a result.

>> Heh; learn something new every day.  I never would have guessed
>> that there was an actual architecture that would blow up with
>> this construct.

>> I assume that *(a+(i-j)) would be ok?

>     Assuming `i-j' in range, yes.

>     More on my colleague's tale: The code maintained a buffer
> in which items of various sizes accumulated, and which drained
> to disk when it got too full or too old.  To decide whether a
> newly-offered item would fit, the code did something like

>        itemEndPtr = nextBufferSpacePtr + itemSize;
>        if (itemEndPtr < bufferStart + bufferSize) ...

Might fail in x86 (especially the 80286) in huge model.

You can't load arbitrary data into segment selector registers
in protected mode x86. In large mode, though, any offset isn't
tested until an actual access is attempted. (The offset is in
an ordinary register, such as AX.) 

In huge model, the system allocates a series of segments,
such that the one can address through them in order.

Still, I believe that the compilers are careful not to load
a segment selector until needed to actually access something,
maybe partly to allow such faulty C code.

> This worked as intended on all the other target systems, but
> failed on AS/400.  I suspect the failure had something to do
> with the fact that the buffer was in a shared memory area, so
> stepping off the end also meant stepping outside of mapped
> address space; the problem might not have shown up with the
> `auto' array in your example.

I believe that could happen with protected mode x86, too.

>     Still, perhaps a salutary lesson for the folks who still
> believe "All the world's a VAX^H^H^Hx86^H^H^Hx64^H^H^H..."

In the 80286 days, I had OS/2 1.0 and then 1.2 running, when
just about everyone else was running MS-DOS. Instead of using
malloc(), I would directly allocate segments from OS/2 of exactly
the needed length. The hardware will then interrupt for an access,
even read, either before or just after the end of the allocated
space. (Unless the register wraps, and it is back into the 
allocated space again.) 

As usual in C, a 2D array was allocated as an array of pointers,
each pointing to its own OS/2 allocated segment. 

Fortunately, the C compilers were always good at not using segment
selector registers when copying pointers that might not point to
anything.

I don't know AS/400 that well, but there have been systems that relied
on the compiler to generate the appropriate code, instead of run-time
memory protection. I believe some Burroughs ALGOL systems worked that
way. (Maybe still do.)

As far as I know, they never had a C compiler, but if one did it might
also have problems with out of range pointers.

-- glen

Thread

Pointer Arithmetic & UB Edward Rutherford <edward.p.rutherford79@REMOVETHIS.gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 17:14 +0000
  Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-10 09:35 -0800
  Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-10 12:55 -0500
    Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-10 13:25 -0500
      Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2012-12-11 00:46 +0000
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-10 21:28 -0500
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 14:36 -0500
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-12 20:35 +0000
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-12 15:57 -0500
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-12 16:02 -0500
              Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-12 16:13 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-12 21:18 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-12 22:42 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-17 12:04 +0200
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-17 08:47 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-17 14:58 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-17 10:59 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-17 17:26 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-17 19:33 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-20 11:00 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-20 10:03 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-20 22:02 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 13:09 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 22:40 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-21 23:39 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 06:50 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 00:15 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 10:34 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 09:32 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-23 09:38 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-23 09:55 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-26 13:35 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 09:03 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-27 21:31 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-12-28 01:55 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-29 13:43 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-12-28 01:39 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-28 11:31 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-12-28 08:47 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-29 17:45 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-30 04:06 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-02 10:08 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-26 13:29 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 07:55 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 08:01 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-27 21:10 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-29 18:03 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-23 03:48 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-23 10:22 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-27 10:34 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 10:16 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-10 17:26 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-20 12:21 -0600
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-20 13:40 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-20 13:32 -0600
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-20 14:58 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-20 21:54 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Lanarcam <lanarcam1@yahoo.fr> - 2012-12-20 19:49 +0100
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-21 02:38 +0200
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-21 14:33 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 03:18 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 13:16 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 17:57 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 23:52 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 19:47 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 22:54 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-22 03:31 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 09:16 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 04:23 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 11:07 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-17 02:33 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-17 02:18 -0800
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-12-11 11:36 +0100
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-11 10:00 -0800
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-17 12:11 +0200
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-11 15:27 -0500
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-11 21:09 +0000
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 14:30 -0500
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-12-12 11:42 -0800
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 17:12 -0500
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-17 12:16 +0200
  Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Prathamesh Kulkarni <bilbotheelffriend@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 12:04 -0800
    Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-10 15:29 -0500
      Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Prathamesh Kulkarni <bilbotheelffriend@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 12:44 -0800
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Prathamesh Kulkarni <bilbotheelffriend@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 12:47 -0800
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-10 16:02 -0500
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Prathamesh Kulkarni <bilbotheelffriend@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 13:08 -0800
              Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 14:26 -0500
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Greg Martin <greg@softsprocket.com> - 2012-12-10 14:55 -0800
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Sjouke Burry <s@b> - 2012-12-10 21:18 +0000
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2012-12-11 00:48 +0000
      Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-10 21:01 +0000
      Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 14:24 -0500
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-12 14:34 -0600
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-12 20:45 +0000
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-12 15:29 -0600
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-13 02:02 +0000
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-12-17 05:57 -0800
    Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2012-12-10 20:20 -0500

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