Re: Precedence Misunderstanding

From	Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Precedence Misunderstanding
Date	2012-07-18 18:32 +0100
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<ju6rvj$2t8$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <874np7j8br.fsf@blp.benpfaff.org> <ju4knh$4f4$1@speranza.aioe.org> <878veihylm.fsf@blp.benpfaff.org> <ju6l4f$gvf$1@speranza.aioe.org> <87y5mhgfxb.fsf@blp.benpfaff.org>

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Ben Pfaff wrote:

> I didn't say that there was a hole in basic algebra or lambda
> calculus.  I said that "we aren't taught about [side effects] in
> our math classes" and "That's because side effects don't exist in
> math."  I stand by those remarks: in the years of math classes
> that I took, side effects never came up.  If I had spoken up in a
> math class, saying "But what about side effects?", no one would
> have understood what I was talking about.

As I've said, these "side effects" you mentioned clearly do "exist in math", 
and are covered right in basic algebra.  If your math classes covered the 
basic definition of a function then you obviously did covered them.  

I suspect that the only reason you claim otherwise is that you may not be 
aware that "side effects" are nothing more than operands and values of any 
given operator which you've ignored, and as a consequence you aren't aware 
that they are a part of an operator's domain and/or co-domain and how they 
influence the result of an operation.

> Math textbooks don't tell you that you have to evaluate the
> terminals from left to right, or in any other order, since the
> order of evaluation just doesn't matter without introducing side
> effects.

You are confusing things.  The operators in "math textbooks" are not the 
same as operators in C.  You don't see any operator defined in a "math 
textbook" that includes a fenv_t element in its domain or co-domain, nor 
does the real numbers set includes overflow or NaN values and flags.  
Floating point numbers may have been defined to represent real numbers, and 
floating point operators may have been defined to represent a set of 
mathematical operators but that doesn't mean they are the same.  

Rui Maciel

Thread

Precedence Misunderstanding Charles Richmond <frizzle@aquaporin4.com> - 2012-07-16 23:18 -0500
  Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-16 21:54 -0700
    Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-16 22:13 -0700
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-16 22:36 -0700
        Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-17 13:57 +0100
    Re: Precedence Misunderstanding "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2012-07-17 13:35 -0500
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-07-17 20:48 +0200
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-17 13:45 -0500
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-17 12:27 -0700
        Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2012-07-17 20:20 +0000
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-17 20:34 +0100
        Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-17 12:39 -0700
          Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-17 20:57 +0100
        Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-17 20:48 +0100
          Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-07-17 21:12 -0700
            Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2012-07-18 07:14 +0000
              Re: Precedence Misunderstanding "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-07-18 10:11 +0100
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-18 09:18 -0700
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-18 18:10 +0100
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-18 18:27 +0100
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-18 18:53 +0100
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-18 21:07 +0100
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-19 20:47 +0300
              Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-07-18 23:54 -0700
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ike Naar <ike@sverige.freeshell.org> - 2012-07-19 07:21 +0000
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-07-17 20:42 +0100
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2012-07-17 20:38 +0000
        Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-19 20:54 +0300
          Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2012-07-19 22:02 +0000
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2012-07-17 22:31 -0400
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-18 00:35 -0700
    Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-17 22:16 +0100
      Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-17 14:22 -0700
        Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-18 16:35 +0100
          Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-18 10:03 -0700
            Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-18 18:32 +0100
              Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-18 10:45 -0700
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-18 19:29 +0100
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-07-18 11:45 -0700
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-18 13:26 -0700
                Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-19 00:51 -0700
              Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-19 00:11 -0700
  Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-17 00:05 -0500
  Re: Precedence Misunderstanding Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2012-07-17 07:40 +0000

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