Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all?

From	pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all?
Date	2012-07-08 22:18 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<jtd10a$i7d$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	<jscgum$lk6$1@speranza.aioe.org> <kfn8vev1hrs.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <jtasoj$khi$1@speranza.aioe.org> <jtbr6n$mbn$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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In article <jtbr6n$mbn$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
jacob navia  <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
>Le 08/07/12 04:54, Alan Curry a écrit :
>>
>> As far as I know, the usual method of allocating VLAs is to just decrement
>> the stack pointer register have faith that the OS will make the pages appear
>> when they're needed.
>>
>
>You can't do that under windows
>
>
>> Should physical memory to be reserved at the time of the test? Is there even
>> a syscall to reserve physical memory for not-yet-used stack pages on any
>> current OS, or will we have to invent a new mmap flag?
>>
>
>Under windows you touch the page below the current stack pointer and the 
>system will retrieve you 4096 bytes extending the stack.
>
>If you touch a byte more than a page below the current stack the
>program will crash. If you want an automatic array of more than 4096
>bytes (say a 64K array) you have to build a loop touching each page
>in the right sequence until you reach 64K.

Now that you mention it, I think I have seen that loop before in some Windows
assembly dumps, inside a helper function that acts like alloca(). I suppose
the compiler puts it into the prologue of every function with more than one
page worth of autos. I assume gcc for Windows does it already, which means it
wouldn't be too much effort to also get gcc to do the same thing on other
platforms.

What is the normal reaction when that touch-every-page loop runs out of
memory? The process dies of an unhandled exception is my guess. The proposed
clean failure mode for VLAs would require a tricky handler for that
exception.

>
>Apparently Linux is clever enough to avoid that.

Looking it up now... there is more clever stuff than I expected in the
arch-specific page fault handlers. On x86 it uses the current value of the
userspace stack pointer as a limit. On PPC it looks at whether the fault was
caused by one of the special stack-frame-setup instructions.

Aside from the arch-specific magic, the main rule is that a page fault that
occurs anywhere between the current bottom of stack and the top of the
nearest lower allocated region is a candidate for stack growth.

-- 
Alan Curry

Thread

Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 15:28 +0100
  Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 11:54 -0400
  Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-06-26 21:05 +0200
    Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 21:04 +0100
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-26 13:09 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-27 17:50 +1200
          Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-06-27 07:57 +0200
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 00:49 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-06-27 13:50 +0100
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-27 10:21 -0400
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-06-27 19:56 +0100
          Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 00:55 +0300
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Andrew Cooper <amc96@cam.ac.uk> - 2012-07-05 23:37 +0100
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-06 16:53 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-06 18:26 +1200
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-07 17:37 +0300
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-08 08:03 +1200
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-07-06 02:58 -0700
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-06 18:11 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-07-09 02:33 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-09 11:35 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2012-07-09 22:33 +0000
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-10 10:52 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-07-09 12:03 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-10 09:19 +1200
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 07:25 +0100
    Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-06-27 07:10 +0200
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-06-27 20:48 +0200
  Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-26 21:13 +0200
    Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 20:47 +0100
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-26 13:05 -0700
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? David Resnick <lndresnick@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 13:51 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-06-26 17:10 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 07:27 +0100
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 20:23 +0100
  Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 11:20 -0700
    Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-28 09:35 +1200
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 17:23 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-28 13:06 +1200
          Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-29 10:48 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-30 21:58 +1200
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-06-30 03:37 -0700
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-01 19:31 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 00:54 +0300
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-06 17:58 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 00:49 +0300
          Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-06 16:38 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-07 18:00 +0300
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-07 12:40 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-08 02:54 +0000
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-08 13:33 +0200
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-08 22:18 +0000
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-09 10:57 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-09 21:38 +0000
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-10 11:12 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-08 11:28 -0700

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