Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all?

From	jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all?
Date	2012-06-27 07:57 +0200
Organization	lccwin
Message-ID	<jse7d5$f7c$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	<jscgum$lk6$1@speranza.aioe.org> <jsd15l$28f$1@speranza.aioe.org> <jsd4ka$akr$1@speranza.aioe.org> <lnvcid4yys.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <a4vl9cF91rU1@mid.individual.net>

Show all headers | View raw

Le 27/06/12 07:50, Ian Collins a écrit :
> On 06/27/12 08:09 AM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Rui Maciel<rui.maciel@gmail.com>  writes:
>>> jacob navia wrote:
>>>> VLAs are indispensable when you want to avoid unnecessary calls
>>>> to the expensive malloc function.
>>>
>>> But what about the inability to gracefully recover from a memory
>>> allocation
>>> error?  If a VLA is defined with the wrong size at the wrong moment
>>> then it
>>> appears that it isn't possible to do anything about it, nor is it even
>>> possible to put in place any safeguard to avoid that.  In fact, are
>>> there
>>> any scenarios where a VLA defined with an arbitrary size is
>>> guaranteed to
>>> work as expected?
>>
>> No (unless the implementation defines its own error-detection
>> mechanism).
>>
>> But the same applies to old-style constant-size arrays.  If you declare
>>
>>      double mat[100][100];
>>
>> either at block scope or at file scope, there's no mechanism to detect
>> an allocation failure.
>
> But you can do a static analysis.
>

lcc-win was ported to a 16 bit Analog Devices chip with something like
40K RAM available.

There was no stack, and the stack was created by the compiler using
a memory array: this implied a static analaysis.

Recursion was forbidden (coudln't be analyzed well) and indirect
recursion was detected: function A calls B that calls C that calls A.

If you are doing that, VLA's are of course off limits. But, as far as
I know, recursion is allowed in C and nobody is screaming to
eliminate it because in some RAM constrained environments it could
lead to crashes.

We have to separate the C language from the implementations of C
in very constrained environments.

Thread

Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 15:28 +0100
  Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 11:54 -0400
  Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-06-26 21:05 +0200
    Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 21:04 +0100
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-26 13:09 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-27 17:50 +1200
          Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-06-27 07:57 +0200
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 00:49 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-06-27 13:50 +0100
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-27 10:21 -0400
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-06-27 19:56 +0100
          Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 00:55 +0300
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Andrew Cooper <amc96@cam.ac.uk> - 2012-07-05 23:37 +0100
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-06 16:53 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-06 18:26 +1200
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-07 17:37 +0300
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-08 08:03 +1200
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-07-06 02:58 -0700
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-06 18:11 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-07-09 02:33 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-09 11:35 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2012-07-09 22:33 +0000
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-10 10:52 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-07-09 12:03 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-10 09:19 +1200
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 07:25 +0100
    Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-06-27 07:10 +0200
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-06-27 20:48 +0200
  Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-26 21:13 +0200
    Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 20:47 +0100
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-26 13:05 -0700
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? David Resnick <lndresnick@gmail.com> - 2012-06-26 13:51 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-06-26 17:10 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 07:27 +0100
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-06-27 20:23 +0100
  Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 11:20 -0700
    Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-28 09:35 +1200
      Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 17:23 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-28 13:06 +1200
          Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-29 10:48 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-30 21:58 +1200
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-06-30 03:37 -0700
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-01 19:31 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 00:54 +0300
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-06 17:58 -0700
        Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 00:49 +0300
          Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-06 16:38 -0700
            Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-07 18:00 +0300
              Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-07 12:40 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-08 02:54 +0000
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-08 13:33 +0200
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-08 22:18 +0000
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-09 10:57 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-09 21:38 +0000
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-10 11:12 -0700
                Re: Variable-length arrays: should they be used at all? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-08 11:28 -0700

csiph-web