Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data

From	Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de>
Newsgroups	comp.compression
Subject	Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data
Date	2012-02-02 10:09 +0100
Organization	InterNetNews at News.BelWue.DE (Stuttgart, Germany)
Message-ID	<jgdjsa$5u$1@news.belwue.de> (permalink)
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Am 02.02.2012 09:51, schrieb jacko:
> Basically SG is saying compression (C) is impossible because assuming C and assuming certain properties of C (P) being a secondary implicit assumption, leads to a contradiction of counting, from which is implied NOT C.
>
> As any rationalization which ignores the C AND NOT P alternative would not be suitable for SG and the majority, then it becomes held as crank. Which if you infer the reason for the majority not wanting to look stupid at having copied works containing flawed logic, it all makes sense. You're a crank, not because you are wrong, but because they say you're wrong, and they wish to infer there superior number of bodies, and imply a subconscious threat by it. It's all monkey see, monkey do round here.
>
> The classic P is that all files shrink. But why is this so? The possibility that the file stays the same size is never considered. Because analyzing the possible information contents of a fixed size group of bits is so much more difficult than doing a triangular summation of states. So it is ignored by being said to be impossible without proof. This would make them cranks if they were not in the majority, and so maybe they should be considered pandemic cranks.


How come that so many people here seem to show here a sign of mental 
insanity? Just again, of course "it is considered" that the file size 
stays the same. Actually, this has been said a couple of times here that 
the only compression that compresses all files is the one that just 
leaves the file size identical. Just that nobody would call that 
compression with the output equally sized than the input. Or at least, 
if I had the option to buy or buy not such a "compression program", I 
would rather not. I would just use "cp", which does a similarly useful job.

Second, this has nothing to do with all the "factorization" business 
here. The question was: "Is modulus reduction a new idea", and the 
answer is "no", by pointing to the literature, which was declined by the 
OP by simply failing to get the literature. This is pretty much a sign 
of "crank-ism".

The question was "does it help for compression", and the answer is 
"likely not so", but whether that is or is not true is still to be seen. 
It has never been applied to compression, as nobody does forsee how it 
could, including the original poster who just posted this into the empty 
space without showing either having a clue of how to use it, or a 
working concept to demonstrate this, and neither a will to work upon it. 
There are two *sensible* reactions one could get from a thinking person: 
a) just to say, "ok, seems to be a stupid idea, you're right", or b) 
"no, here is a working concept, I'll write up a small article to show 
you how it would work, plus a demo program that does this". Instead, the 
OP picks c), namely denoting everyone as "Nazi" who states that using 
factorization is actually a stupid idea for compression. Which, IMHO, it 
really is, but this is an opinion.

What makes it so terribly hard just to get a good book on the 
fundamentals and read about them? It is not that any such reading could 
potentially destroy your brain... It just implies the risk that you
might actually understand why many ideas are stupid, but doesn't render 
any *really* new ideas invalid at all.

Thread

Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 09:46 -0800
  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-24 13:03 -0800
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 14:52 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 15:25 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 16:49 -0800
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-24 18:55 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 19:23 -0800
              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 21:08 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 20:50 -0800
  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 00:09 -0600
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 23:51 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 02:28 -0600
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 02:54 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 03:08 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-24 23:58 -0800
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 00:08 -0800
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 02:40 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 05:25 -0600
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 05:20 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 12:12 -0800
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-25 13:32 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 14:33 -0800
              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-25 17:43 -0600
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 19:00 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-26 07:17 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2012-02-08 06:06 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-02-08 07:30 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-25 15:19 -0800
  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-26 02:20 -0800
    Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-26 07:25 -0800
      Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-26 18:52 -0800
        Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-27 09:25 +0100
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 12:01 -0800
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 12:12 -0800
            Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-27 16:13 -0800
              Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-28 11:22 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-28 13:59 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-30 09:49 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-30 08:51 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 08:51 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 08:38 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-30 18:44 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:49 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 16:27 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-31 08:46 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 03:58 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-01-31 21:58 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 07:41 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 15:27 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 16:06 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 07:47 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:38 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 08:10 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:22 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 06:31 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:15 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 19:18 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-07 06:21 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 19:06 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 19:15 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 08:24 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:54 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-02-01 11:00 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 21:19 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 07:15 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:25 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 07:07 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 19:35 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-07 06:33 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 18:51 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-01 03:51 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 09:34 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-01 08:53 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:31 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-02 07:18 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 16:47 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 17:00 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 18:55 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-01-31 08:10 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-01-31 11:31 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 11:11 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:05 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:35 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 11:24 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-02 12:52 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 14:06 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 07:09 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 07:45 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 09:42 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 10:19 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 12:05 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Jim Leonard <mobygamer@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 14:40 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:11 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 15:43 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-30 14:52 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-01-31 04:31 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-31 14:21 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data pfraser <pete_fraser@comcast.net> - 2012-01-31 15:04 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-01 10:50 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-01 20:19 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 00:51 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2012-02-02 10:09 +0100
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 11:43 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 01:21 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 02:43 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-04 15:42 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 13:53 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:32 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Sebastian <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-02-02 01:56 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 13:54 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 12:59 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 12:47 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Ernst <Ernst_Berg@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-02-02 23:54 -0800
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data stan <smoore@exis.net> - 2012-02-08 13:22 -0500
                Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Earl_Colby_Pottinger <earlcolby.pottinger@sympatico.ca> - 2012-02-04 20:45 -0800
          Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-01-30 15:32 +0100
  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 06:34 -0500
  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 07:29 -0500
  Re: Modulus, Factoring and Compressing random data "George Johnson" <matrix29@charter.net> - 2012-02-02 07:46 -0500

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