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Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming?

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On 09/23/2011 01:11 PM, Rui Maciel wrote:
> Ian Collins wrote:
>
>> So those of us with Electronic Engineering degrees (including members of
>> professional bodies) aren't engineers either?
>
> It really depends on what you are doing.  Not everything a
> civil/structural/mechanical/aeronautical/etc engineer does is engineering.
>
> Nevertheless, the level of restrictions and assurances that a society
> requires in order to grant someone the ability to exercise the practice of
> "engineering" (i.e., the license), along with the civil and criminal
> responsibility it imposes on those who practice it, is a good litmus test to
> see if a field is in fact engineering.

Does (or should) the liability extend to "Supporting Engineers"?
"Junior"? "Apprentice"? Are such titles common in the
fields you are referring to?

BTW, in "some" situations programming errors cost money. One does
not need to define liability by means of creating
law, it can be written down in a contract. You seem to
be defining "engineering" by including  "criminal liability",
along with civil liability, implying that people's life or
health are in danger [because of engineers actions or
lack thereof]. Apparently not all fields of engineering
may cause a direct threat to people health and safety, for
example reading human writing is both usually not reliable
enough to count upon in emergency situations and an
engineering accomplishment based on some maths and programming
methods, hence it suits the general definition and not yours.

I think it should be a criminal offence to make such oversimplified
claims as yours on a mailing list dedicated to engineering; or
maybe you are right that software makers should be responsible
for bugs, I've heard of some EU efforts towards such laws, which
are meant to protect consumers; they are not meant to result
in criminal punishments though.

As for your other points:
> Instead, they
> should've just take a job operating a locomotive.
             ^^^^^
>
>> > It's rewarding to denigrate somebody else's work.  Makes one's own
>> > activities seem more important...  Keep it up!
> Stating that an occupation isn't engineering is not denigrating somebody or
> their work.

You seem to be contradicting yourself in the same message.

>> Engineer is a person who's in charge of
>> > dealing with engines, machines.
> So, then a person who rides a bicycle must be a bicycle engineer, a driver's
> license must be an automotive engineering license, and a carny who operates
> a ride must be a carnival ride engineer.

I would call a person who tests engines an engineer. And a craftsman at
the same time. (if that is the right word, I'm not English). And that
was the topic as far as I am following it, not John Smith using the
great calculator software you have written (please do not think now
about engineers using calculators, ok?)

As my own observation I may add that giving funny titles to people
writing software might be part of social engineering, making the
monkey at the keyboard feel happy, which is a step towards
getting the best monkeys' productivity ;), and has nothing to do
with any social contract nor, ugh, licence. The world did
not change at all, people love nice titles.

Edek

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Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 11:25 +0200
  Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Fulvio Esposito <esposito.fulvio@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 02:33 -0700
  Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 21:35 +1200
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-22 11:36 +0000
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-23 07:43 +1200
  Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-22 11:17 +0000
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 14:13 +0200
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-22 12:47 +0000
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-22 13:21 +0000
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 15:34 +0200
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-23 15:32 +0000
  Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-22 13:12 +0000
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 15:45 +0200
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-27 18:59 +0000
  Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2011-09-22 11:51 -0700
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 12:23 -0700
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-23 10:36 +0200
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 22:39 -0700
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 11:26 +0100
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-23 20:30 +0900
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 14:06 +0100
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Victor Bazarov <v.bazarov@comcast.invalid> - 2011-09-23 09:25 -0400
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-09-23 09:37 -0700
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 20:43 +0100
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-26 10:34 +0000
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-24 05:06 +0900
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 07:39 -0700
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-23 12:09 -0500
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 19:44 +0100
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2011-09-25 19:03 +0000
  Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-09-22 12:36 -0700
    Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 11:11 +0100
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-23 22:56 +1200
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 12:11 +0100
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-24 08:46 +1200
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-24 21:55 +0100
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-09-23 22:59 +0200
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-24 21:53 +0100
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 11:05 +1300
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 13:00 +0100
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Edek <edek.pienkowski@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 15:43 +0200
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 07:54 -0700
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 08:15 +1300
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ebenezer <woodbrian77@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 21:26 -0700
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 17:32 +1300
                Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-26 17:10 +0900
              Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-26 11:04 +0000
      Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-25 07:45 -0700
        Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-25 19:28 +0100
          Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-26 02:03 -0700
            Re: Is there a term for all tasks around programming? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-26 12:43 +0100

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