Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ?

From	BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ?
Date	2011-09-09 14:24 -0700
Organization	albasani.net
Message-ID	<j4e077$27r$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink)
References	(12 earlier) <334d2599-e6f4-4037-937b-e918bdccff70@y4g2000vbx.googlegroups.com> <j4bir0$5nn$1@news.albasani.net> <1fbcf3b9-4cfd-496a-b7c9-1f61016ec09f@y21g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> <j4dlbj$7am$1@news.albasani.net> <Xns9F5BF1263CA99myfirstnameosapriee@216.196.109.131>

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On 9/9/2011 1:42 PM, Paavo Helde wrote:
> BGB<cr88192@hotmail.com>  wrote in news:j4dlbj$7am$1@news.albasani.net:
>> if a project gets largish, then this becomes a much bigger issue, like
>> which library depends on which, ...
>>
>> these issues become far more apparent when building for Linux, as
>> every library dependency needs an "-l/name/" option, which may need to
>> be added to every Makefile which uses said library, ...
>
> Let's see: adding -l/name/ in a Makefile: 30 seconds; copy-pasting source
> code from other project, adding new files to the project, adding new
> files to the version control system: 15 minutes; fixing M bugs in N-1
> diverged copies of source code and testing that the fix worked: M*(N-1)
> hours or more... I think I stick with the 30 seconds option!
>

unless if applies to roughly 150 Makefiles, which is where the issue 
comes in (then one has to go through a cycle of adding "-l/name/" to 
each of them).

adding a few source files into a Makefile is also a lot easier than 
adding a new library to the project, since the source files may often 
only effect a single Makefile, whereas the addition of a library or 
moving some code from one library to another, may potentially effect 
*many* Makefiles.

in a few cases, I ended up putting several conceptually disjoint 
"libraries" into a single DLL/SO, mostly as to avoid the problem of 
having to go and update all of the Makefiles which depended on it.

>>
>> so, one could almost make a big flowchart of which libraries may
>> depend on which other libraries, ... (if one is into flowcharts and so
>> on).
>
> Of course the build system must know the dependencies of the libraries,
> otherwise it could not build them in the right order. BTW, the Makefile
> format is a convenient way to mark these dependencies. About flowcharts -
> I'm pretty sure the flowchart of our nightly build would not fit any
> printable sheet of paper, but fortunately no one has ever needed such a
> thing.
>

typically, in my case, it is done recursively as several stages:
"includes", which rebuilds headers;
"libs", which rebuilds any libraries;
"apps", which rebuilds any binaries;
"meta", which rebuilds any metadata databases.

currently, source-processing/generating tools building is handled in the 
"includes" stage, meaning that any such tools can't depend on external 
headers or libraries (they need to be entirely self-contained, and are 
often implemented as single large source files and may be scattered 
throughout the project).

trying to address the tools issue would likely end up introducing 
additional stages, which would again, require going and making a bunch 
of edits to the Makefile tree.

at each level, one may have a command like "all: includes libs apps 
meta", to allow invoking make from various locations (rebuilding this 
particular branch of the toplevel).

also, in some cases, special build targets exist generally to allow 
omitting rebuilding parts of the project tree (mostly to save time, say, 
if I am only working on the 3D engine, I don't want to also be 
rebuilding all of the compiler and script-VM stuff...).

typically, each library also has its own little source tree, with a set 
of directory organization rules:
"base" generally for source code (others may be used);
"include" for headers;
"docs" for any library-specific documentation;
...

the overall build process is generally a big recursive make with each 
project directory level having its own set of Makefiles (sort of like in 
the Linux kernel or similar, or at least that is how it was back when I 
was messing with it, dunno if it is still this way now).

running a line counter for Makefiles:
10.84 kloc in 153 files.

yep...

Thread

Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 01:41 -0700
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C   10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-01 21:15 +1200
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? "Fred Zwarts \(KVI\)" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2011-09-01 11:48 +0200
    Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 15:34 -0700
      Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 19:09 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by   C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 14:39 +1200
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Krice <paulkp@mbnet.fi> - 2011-09-01 22:33 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-02 01:12 -0500
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:25 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-04 01:34 -0500
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 02:33 -0700
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 11:00 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 23:23 -0700
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 03:00 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 09:39 -0700
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 12:44 +0100
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 09:59 +0100
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 11:25 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-03 05:51 +0000
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 01:45 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 20:53 +1200
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 10:49 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 08:15 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 17:50 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-03 16:28 +0000
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 10:42 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? "Bo Persson" <bop@gmb.dk> - 2011-09-04 11:34 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 09:04 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-04 18:04 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-09-04 18:44 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 23:26 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-05 08:01 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-05 11:45 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-06 06:30 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 07:22 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-06 16:25 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 07:14 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-07 12:28 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 16:49 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 18:45 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-08 15:56 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:32 -0700
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 19:16 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-05 00:28 -0700
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-05 12:34 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 07:51 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-05 14:06 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 00:32 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 07:33 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 02:52 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-08 16:24 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 11:38 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-08 21:39 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 19:01 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 02:45 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 03:23 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-14 23:12 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 02:40 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 11:19 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-09 15:42 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 14:24 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-09 18:22 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 10:11 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-10 10:54 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 14:28 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-11 12:29 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-11 00:45 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 00:39 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-12 18:06 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 16:46 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-13 10:20 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 13:16 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-11 04:53 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-11 14:51 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 07:46 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 03:10 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by   C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 22:50 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 04:48 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-07 09:45 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by   C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 21:51 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 00:15 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-08 12:14 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 07:14 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-06 13:52 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 11:47 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 11:50 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-06 21:04 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 20:37 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 15:10 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 21:14 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-07 00:40 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 23:59 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 16:26 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 14:55 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-07 00:51 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 23:29 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-07 09:06 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by   C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 19:09 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-07 13:19 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-07 13:01 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 14:26 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-07 15:49 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-08 22:49 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-09 15:25 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 02:50 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 03:26 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 03:25 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 00:24 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-06 13:57 +0000
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 08:18 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-03 08:34 +0100
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? "A" <a@a.a> - 2011-09-01 11:50 +0200
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 10:53 +0100
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:11 -0700

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