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Re: Attenuate highest highs?

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On 20/02/2020 11:05 am, ~misfit~ wrote:
> On 20/02/2020 10:44 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 19/02/2020 1:02 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2020 11:14 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2020 6:41 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Those "tinkling noises" you hear are somewhere around 3kHz. 
>>>>
>>>> **Should read: "....somewhere around 3 ~ 5kHz."
>>>
>>> It seems to be higher.
>>
>> **Until it has been measured, then we're both guessing. Few 
>> instruments go as high as 5kHz. There is almost nothing beyond 10kHz 
>> in any music.
>>
>>>
>>> FWIW I just did this on-line frequency hearing test:
>>> <http://onlinetonegenerator.com/hearingtest.html>
>>> and through my monitor-mounted Dell soundbar (with 25mm drivers) I 
>>> could hear to just over 12.5kHz but through the stereo in question 
>>> could only hear to about 11.5kHz. That's quite a bit lower than the 
>>> last time I used a similar tool a few years back. Maybe those years 
>>> when I spent hours several nights a week at a mixing desk at live 
>>> (loud) gigs in my 20s are coming back to bite me?
>>>
>>> So now I'm a bit baffled. The issue I have is due to sounds at the 
>>> highest frequencies that I can hear and that seems to be ~11kHz with 
>>> this system in the current configuration. Maybe they have a peak 
>>> about there or are flatter than the other speakers I've tried...
>>
>> **Until you perform some measurements, you're guessing. You could try 
>> to acquire a (preferably digital) parametric equaliser and perform 
>> some measurements.
>>
>> I still betcha room treatments will solve your problems. IME (which is 
>> substantial), room treatments solve most mid-HF problems, PROVIDED 
>> there is nothing inherently wrong with the equipment, or the amp is 
>> not being clipped.
>>
>>>
>>>> Very few instruments possess fundamentals that reach 5kHz. A very 
>>>> tiny number posses harmonics of significant levels that exceed 10kHz.
>>>>
>>>> Turn the volume down and see if the sound is still annoying. I 
>>>> suspect you are clipping your amplifier. Clipping can generate large 
>>>> amounts of high frequency harmonic content. And, just to shut down 
>>>> any myths you may have heard: Valve amplifiers WILL clip and WILL 
>>>> generate excessive high frequency harmonics if over-driven.
>>>
>>> It's not clipping. The Dynaco ST120 I have hooked up at the moment is 
>>> a solid-state amp and I no longer own any valve amps.
>>
>> **You've checked with a 'scope to ensure no clipping then? Or are you 
>> guessing again? It might worth looking at the waveform on a 'scope to 
>> see if there are no parasitics present.
> 
> Of course I'm guessing. I know this is rec.audio.high-end but I don't 
> have (or have access to) a parametric equaliser or an o'scope. When I 
> say I'm not listening at low 'office level' volumes I also don't mean 
> ear-bleeding party volumes. Maybe somewhere in the 'half volume' range 
> on a 60 - 80 wpc amp... I've currently got a Marantz Stereo Reciever 
> SR4023 hooked up set to 'flat' (it has a pre/power loop for the 
> subwoofer amp) and the issue is the same - but the amp belongs elsewhere.
> 
> However I have used these speakers with a few different amplifiers, 
> (from 25 watts /channel class A up to 160 w/c RMS) and at different 
> volumes and in different locations and the issue I perceive persists.
> 
> I realise that without measuring we're all making educated guesses. 
> Really I just wanted to know what to add to the speaker crossovers / 
> tweeter wires to attenuate frequencies above say 10kHz by maybe 3db (and 
> not attenuate the crucial frequencies where female vocals and the upper 
> reaches of electric guitar solos and harmonics reside).

**Without proper measurements, we are all still guessing. However, 
should you wish to perform some experiments and spend a little money, 
this product MAY solve some or all your problems:

https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Behringer/Signal-Processors/Equalizers/DEQ2496/p/P0146#googtrans(en|en)

Even at the retail price of around AUS$600.00, it delivers phenomenal 
performance for the money.

Fortunately, the products are easy to find on the second hand market. 
Prices tend to be quite low.


Here is one I found on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Behringer-Ultracurve-Pro-DEQ2496-24bit-96kHz-parametric-graphic-equalizer-CLEAN/264639370704?epid=1120285389&hash=item3d9dbc55d0:g:MfAAAOSwfOBeTBi8

To put that price into perspective, I recently sold an analogue 
parametric EQ for AUS$500.00. For some reason, some people prefer the 
old, far less powerful and far less flexible, analogue EQs. I've used 
Behringer products many times and, while they're not perfect, they 
generally deliver excellent performance for the money. A parametric EQ 
is a very powerful tool. A digital parametric, like the Behringer, much 
more so. You can zero in on a very narrow band of frequencies and notch 
any problems out. Like all EQs, you can also misuse them.


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Thread

Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-13 01:19 +1300
  Re: Attenuate highest highs? Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com> - 2020-02-13 16:59 +0000
    Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-14 12:18 +1300
  Re: Attenuate highest highs? Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com> - 2020-02-14 04:11 -0800
    Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 18:05 +1300
      Re: Attenuate highest highs? Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 06:45 -0800
        Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-19 14:21 +1300
  Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-15 04:18 +1100
    Re: Attenuate highest highs? Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com> - 2020-02-14 10:32 -0800
      Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-17 04:58 +1100
        Re: Attenuate highest highs? dpierce.cartchunk.org@gmail.com - 2020-02-17 14:27 -0800
          Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-19 06:35 +1100
      Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 17:28 +1300
        Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-19 06:41 +1100
          Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-19 09:14 +1100
            Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-19 15:02 +1300
              Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-20 08:44 +1100
                Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-20 13:05 +1300
                Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-21 05:01 +1100
                Re: Attenuate highest highs? Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com> - 2020-02-21 04:37 -0800
                Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-22 06:57 +1100
                Re: Attenuate highest highs? Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com> - 2020-02-21 12:48 -0800
                Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-23 05:37 +1100
          Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-19 14:28 +1300
            Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-20 08:57 +1100
              Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-20 13:46 +1300
                Re: Attenuate highest highs? Peter Wieck <peterwieck33@gmail.com> - 2020-02-20 05:18 -0800
                Re: Attenuate highest highs? Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2020-02-24 09:46 +1100
    Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 16:18 +1300
  Re: Attenuate highest highs? dpierce.cartchunk.org@gmail.com - 2020-02-14 13:05 -0800
    Re: Attenuate highest highs? ~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 17:48 +1300
  Re: Attenuate highest highs? "Mat Nieuwenhoven" <mnieuw@zap.a2000.nl> - 2020-02-17 08:50 +0100

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