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Groups > comp.lang.c > #54312

Re: which one is better

From BartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: which one is better
References (3 earlier) <98cfbb23-6d93-4010-874e-ae278a49f1ac@googlegroups.com> <53f3a012-b33d-4e66-8be1-907fa32c753f@googlegroups.com> <4312ffdb-29cb-44db-89be-4bc7e4eadffc@googlegroups.com> <O9niw.44505$tr6.39286@fx15.am4> <fca3417b-4a94-417a-a14d-c7e3093e6c24@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID <fuoiw.67965$kK3.34231@fx10.am4> (permalink)
Organization virginmedia.com
Date 2014-12-11 22:00 +0000

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On 11/12/2014 21:19, John Bode wrote:
> On Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:30:47 PM UTC-6, Bart wrote:
>> On 11/12/2014 20:10, John Bode wrote:

> Yes, really.  Just because you never left the country doesn't mean other
> countries don't exist.

But I can choose to use only my own language, write in that language etc 
and not worry about what happens in other countries because I don't 
intend to go there. And people in those countries can do exactly the same.

>> I spent a couple of decades working with MSDOS and then
>> Windows systems, which have byte-oriented files. Why would I need to
>> care about anything else? So my application is not portable, so what?

> Just because *you* never needed to work on something other than DOS and
> Windows doesn't mean the world isn't that big.

In my market, the world *was* that big. It's nearly 20 years since I was 
involved in anything commercial, but then, a consumer or small business 
buying a computer would most likely be using Windows. A few wanted to 
run Linux or use a Mac, but that was less than 1% of my customers. I 
never head of anyone wanting to run on MPE/iX (actually, I've never 
heard of MPE/iX).

> There are a lot of legacy
> mainframe and mini systems still in use in banking and financial
> applications.  I should know, I'm having to talk to them.
>
> I spent the 90s and early 2000s working on VMS, Encore/Gould, multiple
> flavors of Windows, multiple flavors of Unix, OS/2, MPE/iX, and even had to
> touch a couple of mainframes.  I had to help figure out how to port an app
> from MPE/iX (which used a record-based, transactional file system) to
> Windows, which required a substantial rewrite since Windows couldn't lock
> individual file records like MPE/iX could.

OK, so if I wanted to read a 20-line configuration file into memory, I 
can't do the obvious thing (open the file, get the size, allocate the 
memory, read it and close it), because there might be some dinosaur OSs 
out there where that might not work? Even if the chances of this code 
running on those machines is remote.

>> (BTW what are other file systems are likely to encountered in
>> consumer-level machines these days? I guess that's going to be on
>> Windows, Linux, Android and whatever Apple's OS is called now.
>>
>
> ALL THE WORLD IS NOT A VAX^H^H^HX86.  Your bank isn't running on consumer
> hardware and Windows (at least, you'd better hope they're not).

I also hope they're not running C! I've no idea what banks might be 
using, but you'd think that whoever designs their software would 
implement modern byte-oriented files. Since they must be using similar 
backing storage: hard drives, optical, flash etc as everyone else, and 
those manage, when you do a directory listing on them using a proper OS, 
to give you the size of each file without having to read each file from 
the start.

>> Do hard disk drives still have data encoded as fixed-length records?
>> (Sectors that were 512-bytes long last time I bothered to check.) Yet
>> OSes still manage to implement byte-oriented file systems. How is that
>> possible?
>>
>
> Record- or byte-orientation is a function of the *file system*, not the
> hardware.  And yes, there are still record-oriented file systems in use
> out there.

My point is that you can impose a byte-oriented file system on something 
which is record-oriented.

-- 
Bartc

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Thread

which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-07 14:48 -0800
  Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-07 16:14 -0800
    Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-08 01:28 +0000
      Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-07 19:01 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-08 00:32 -0800
      Re: which one is better Siri Crews <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-08 01:40 -0800
  which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-07 19:00 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-08 00:35 -0800
      Re: which one is better gordonb.7ngx1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 06:28 -0600
        Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 13:08 +0000
          Re: which one is better Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-16 23:49 -0500
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 05:15 -0800
          Re: which one is better gordonb.9nipv@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-17 02:22 -0600
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:21 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:21 -0600
  Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 12:34 +0100
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 05:33 -0800
      Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:27 +0100
      Re: which one is better gordonb.cx8yb@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 06:58 -0600
    Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 15:05 +0000
      Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:31 +0100
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:11 +0000
          Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 18:44 +0100
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:19 -0800
            Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:07 +0000
              Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 20:52 +0000
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 22:10 +0000
              Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 22:57 +0100
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 15:34 +0000
        Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 16:45 +0100
          Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:56 -0800
            Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 16:08 +0000
            Re: which one is better Vincenzo Mercuri <nomail@yahoo.it> - 2014-12-11 17:19 +0100
              Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:35 -0800
            Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:09 +0000
              Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 09:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:13 +0000
            Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-11 20:18 +0000
              Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 12:57 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 01:55 -0600
                Re: which one is better Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2014-12-12 03:03 -0500
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 02:30 -0600
                Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-14 04:03 +0000
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 17:04 +0000
    Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:53 -0800
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 17:49 +0000
      Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:18 -0800
        Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 10:43 -0800
          Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 11:50 -0800
          Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 12:10 -0800
            Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 20:30 +0000
              Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:19 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:32 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.ygnb6@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 08:00 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 06:23 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.ne8xc@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-17 02:38 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.dwhy1@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-19 02:50 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-19 05:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:48 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:21 -0800
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 01:53 +0200
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 00:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 11:33 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 02:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 12:35 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:53 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 12:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:45 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 14:50 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:16 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:36 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 16:42 +0100
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 07:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 18:06 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 03:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:09 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-18 14:51 +0100
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-18 08:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 08:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-18 10:56 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 12:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 04:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-18 12:55 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:12 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:19 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:41 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:49 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-18 13:09 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-18 05:22 -0800
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-23 12:32 +0200
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-24 02:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 13:35 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 22:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 22:00 +0000
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-11 22:08 +0000
              Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-11 15:38 -0800
              Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-12 02:29 +0000
          Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:26 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 12:56 -0800
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-12 02:05 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 00:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:24 -0600
        Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-11 20:17 +0000
    Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 01:14 +0200
  Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:15 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 06:25 -0800
      Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-11 15:00 +0000
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:28 -0800
          Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 07:42 -0800
            Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:01 -0800
              Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:37 -0800
          Re: which one is better Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-12-14 05:46 +0000
  Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:14 -0800
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:26 -0800
    Re: which one is better "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2014-12-11 08:32 -0800
      Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-11 16:45 +0000
      Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-12 02:35 +0000
        Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 20:36 -0800
          Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-12 05:14 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 06:20 -0800
          Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 09:23 +0000
            Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 10:22 +0000
              Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 10:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 11:11 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 04:47 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 13:25 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:15 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:49 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:57 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 01:50 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 02:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 05:36 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 13:51 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 06:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 14:56 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 07:08 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 07:32 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 15:36 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 08:26 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 10:27 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 07:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 09:57 +0100
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 09:54 +0100
                Re: which one is better John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 10:03 -0800
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 11:14 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 11:46 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 12:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 12:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2014-12-18 02:11 +0200
              Re: which one is better glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-14 04:15 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 21:19 -0800
          Re: which one is better Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-12-12 22:51 -0500
      Re: which one is better gordonb.3w2i6@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 09:09 -0600
  Re: which one is better Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-11 16:12 -0600
    Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 14:29 -0800
      Re: which one is better Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2014-12-11 17:32 -0600
        Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 15:39 -0800
          Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-11 23:55 +0000
            Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 15:57 -0800
              Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 00:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-11 16:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 10:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 03:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 11:52 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 13:00 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 13:51 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 12:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 13:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 14:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 15:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 15:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 16:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 17:51 -0800
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-12 21:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-13 01:40 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 18:17 -0800
                Re: which one is better Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-12-13 02:29 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 10:25 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 13:43 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-13 22:44 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 15:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 01:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-13 19:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 12:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-14 12:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-14 20:57 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 13:24 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 13:29 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 14:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 14:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 15:08 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 15:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 00:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 08:05 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 00:25 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 14:33 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-14 23:28 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-14 15:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 01:07 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 02:44 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:02 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:13 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:26 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 11:19 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:50 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 11:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:50 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 18:57 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:31 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:39 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:43 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:52 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 05:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 12:43 +0100
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 11:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 14:03 +0100
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 13:28 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 06:09 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 06:35 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:13 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 14:06 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 10:46 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:53 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 19:20 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 12:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 12:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 04:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:05 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 11:32 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 03:38 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-15 17:20 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 09:40 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 17:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-15 10:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:01 -0800
                Re: which one is better gordonb.3j8fq@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2014-12-16 10:18 -0600
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-15 18:08 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 10:37 -0800
                Re: which one is better Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-15 21:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:10 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:18 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-15 22:22 +0000
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:58 -0800
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-15 15:34 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 17:25 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 02:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:20 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 03:37 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-15 05:00 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 01:41 +0000
                Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-18 02:33 -0600
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-18 00:42 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-14 21:47 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-14 15:55 -0800
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 16:03 -0800
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-15 00:54 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 10:55 +0000
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 11:11 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-15 14:01 +1300
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-15 10:09 +0100
                Re: which one is better David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-12 15:58 +0100
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 15:41 +0000
                Re: which one is better BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-12 18:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-13 08:42 +1300
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 19:59 +0000
                Re: which one is better Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-12 07:39 -0800
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 16:05 +0000
                Re: which one is better Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-12 08:16 -0800
                Re: which one is better Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-12 16:43 +0000
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 14:01 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 06:15 -0800
                Re: which one is better Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-12-12 16:10 +0000
                Re: which one is better rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2014-12-12 08:28 -0800
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 15:27 +0000
                Re: which one is better gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-12-12 14:39 +0000
                Re: which one is better Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2014-12-12 11:11 -0600
                Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 09:34 -0800
    Re: which one is better Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-12 21:47 +1300
      Re: which one is better Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2014-12-16 12:30 -0500
        Re: which one is better Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 12:21 -0600
          Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 13:06 -0600
            Re: which one is better Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 16:44 -0600
              Re: which one is better Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 18:21 -0600
    Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 01:04 -0800
      Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 02:06 -0800
        Re: which one is better fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-12 02:24 -0800

csiph-web