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Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking

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On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 3:53:22 PM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 11:48:35 -0700, Paul Rubin
> <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> 
> >> Even the Lite compiler comes with full source code for the target.

I don't blame Stephen Pelc for wanting to get paid, and for wanting to avoid getting ripped off --- so, holding onto the source-code or at least requiring an NDA is reasonable.

At Testra they had a different strategy. They built their own processor (the MiniForth, now called RACE). They make their money by selling motion-control boards and processor chips. I don't know that they have ever sold any chips by themselves, as they seem to sell only boards. The point though, is that they sell hardware not software. My MFX is given away for free --- it is only useful for generating code for the MiniForth/RACE so it can't be used to compete against Testra --- any use of it will necessarily require the user to buy chips or boards, and there is only one source for this.

> The AVR only has three address registers. That's good enough for C's
> single frame stack, but not for Forth. A Cortex-M0 makes a far
> better Forth engine than an AVR ... and is probably cheaper.
> We had an AVR target for while - it was swept aside by ARM.

I like the AVR. It does have only the X Y and Z register-pairs that can be used as pointers, but I don't see this as a big problem. Moving one register-pair into another is a one-cycle instruction --- so, just leave Z available as a general-purpose pointer and move your pointer into it as necessary.

The AVR code tends to be rather bloated. Also, the AVR lacks certain features that would improve both speed and size significantly. It is almost 20 years old, and it is the last 8-bit processor that is still a realistic target for Forth --- it is true that the ARM is the modern way, and the AVR is pretty retro.

Writing a compiler for either the AVR or the ARM or any other such processor is a waste of time --- it will get pirated if the source-code is made available, whether there is an NDA or not --- and, nobody will use it if the source-code is not available because they don't want to depend upon somebody else to support it, as that person may prove to be unreliable (highly likely, as there is no money to be made, and it is really just a hobby).

This is why I'm promoting the FMITE nowadays --- the only way to make money is with a custom processor --- that is what Testra did with the MiniForth/RACE and what I would like to do with the FMITE.

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Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 08:13 -0700
  Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 08:16 -0700
  Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-14 09:23 -0700
    Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 04:03 -0700
      Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-07-15 14:02 +0200
        Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-15 16:34 +0000
          Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-07-16 12:26 +0200
            Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-16 12:10 +0000
            Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Gary Bergstrom <forthprgrmr@gmail.com> - 2015-07-17 06:48 -0700
            Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-07-17 16:21 -0400
              Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-07-20 11:57 +0200
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-20 12:37 +0000
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Gary Bergstrom <forthprgrmr@gmail.com> - 2015-07-20 10:42 -0700
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-21 11:29 +0000
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-20 11:48 -0700
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-20 22:53 +0000
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-21 00:32 -0700
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-21 08:03 +0000
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-21 01:33 -0700
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-10 16:54 -0700
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-21 05:18 +0000
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-21 08:20 +0000
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-07-20 12:09 -0400
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-07-20 14:02 -0700
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-21 15:03 -0700
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-07-21 21:59 -0700
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-03 23:30 +0200
                Re: Arduino Due - small FORTH Computer - Multitasking JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-08-10 03:11 -0700

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