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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #453876

Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core?

From Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core?
Date 2017-03-27 07:46 -0700
Message-ID <ejsmu8F9p23U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <ob6ae3$5sr$1@dont-email.me> <ejnupqFbqtjU1@mid.individual.net> <ob75u8$jae$1@dont-email.me> <ejq1tfFo702U1@mid.individual.net> <ob8sqg$4bp$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2017-03-26 10:15, rickman wrote:
> On 3/26/2017 10:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2017-03-25 18:39, rickman wrote:
>>> On 3/25/2017 3:30 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 2017-03-25 10:49, rickman wrote:
>>>>> On 3/24/2017 4:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>>>> On 2017-03-24 10:59, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/24/2017 1:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2017-03-20 02:06, Tauno Voipio wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please do not use PVC as RF insulation or support pieces.
>>>>>>>>> It is lossy to extremely lossy at RF.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Plasticized PVC ain't stellar but not horrid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://g3ynh.info/zdocs/comps/part_6.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or do they add a lot of vispipuuro into the mix in Finland? :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you reading the same page?  It says PVC Tanδ is 0.04 - 0.14 at 1
>>>>>>> MHz.  That is in no way acceptable for the sort of high Q circuits
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> are being discussed.  That's comparable to wood, 0.059.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This page even lists PVC in the "Lossy" group as defined by Tanδ ≥
>>>>>>> 0.01.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The losses in ferrite rods are nothing to sneeze at in comparison. I
>>>>>> have used both in ham radio a lot when I was young. I built kilowatt
>>>>>> level RF power amps, impedance matching boxes and similar gear.
>>>>>> Ferrite
>>>>>> rods in transmitters sometimes became so hot that you could barely
>>>>>> touch
>>>>>> them while inductors wound on some random piece of PVC pipe remained
>>>>>> cool. I don't remember the PVC type other than that it was remnants
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> sold for pennies in the plumbing department so that was very likely
>>>>>> well
>>>>>> plasticized.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I don't recall the context of the ferrite, but the receiving
>>>>> antennas in much of this thread and described in detail at Kleijer's
>>>>> web
>>>>> site showed measurable losses with better plastics than PVC.  Even
>>>>> cardboard was a poor support relatively speaking.  Seems he would
>>>>> use a
>>>>> foam type plastic to get some rigidity with a minimum of loss.  Foam
>>>>> PVC
>>>>> was not bad, but his Q measurements increased significantly with foam
>>>>> polypropylene.  Obviously foam is better because there is less actual
>>>>> material.  Solid PVC would show more pronounced losses.
>>>>>
>>>>> He does some amazingly detailed work.  You might find it interesting.
>>>>> The LC experiments were reported in a series of web pages.  Page 10
>>>>> doesn't have a link to page 11, but otherwise they are all chained.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looks like there isn't a page 11.
>>>
>>> That's what I was saying.  There *is* a page 11, page 10 just doesn't
>>> have a link to it.  Go back to the index.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed. I change the number in the URL by hand by starting with page 11
>> he change the URL structure. Well, I am not complaining, my web site
>> design skills aren't that great either.
>>
>>>
>>>>> http://www.crystal-radio.eu/enlctest.htm
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He gets good Q with PVC. Worse with cardboard but who knows what
>>>> kind of
>>>> stuff he used. It looks like carton material. That is often
>>>> post-consumer recycled and you never know what's in it. Water
>>>> content is
>>>> another factor, got to bake it out and then lacquer it immediately
>>>> afterwards.
>>>
>>> He gets good Q with FOAM PVC.  Totally different from solid PVC, much
>>> less of it and a lot more air.  The point is foam anything else worked
>>> even better.
>>>
>>
>> Look at page 7. Very nice Q values except for the dirty pipe yet this is
>> all on regular PVC pipe.
>
> Compared to what?  He is comparing coil winding methods.  What would the
> Q be with other supports?
>

The Q is over 500. It was claimed in this thread that PVC is not 
suitable as coil winding material and this proves that it is quite 
suitable. Which I already knew because I've used it in RF power amps 
decades ago.

>
>>>> The huge jump in Q in part 3 shows that he used the wrong measurement
>>>> setup until then. You can't do this sort of stuff with a 100:1 scope
>>>> probe, it has to be at least a high-end FET probe. However, hat off, he
>>>> achieved amazing Q values in his experiments.
>>>>
>>>> Look at the Q values he gets in part 7. Those are all regular plumbing
>>>> PVC pipes. L16 has lower Q but that PVC tube isn't even particularly
>>>> clean. It is important to keep or make them pristine when building
>>>> high-Q stuff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I found it very illuminating his tests with the variable capacitors.
>>>>> Even parts like bushings were found to make a difference.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I remember that from my ham radio days. Dirty or oxidized rotor
>>>> contacts
>>>> .... phssssst ... PHUT ... *BANG* and worst case that could take the
>>>> tubes into the abyss along with it. I also spent part of a Wenol
>>>> polishing paste tube keeping the final Pi-filter inductor shiny so it
>>>> wouldn't heat up too badly and unsolder a connection to it (which could
>>>> also result in a loud bang).
>>>>
>>>> BTW, while such high Q isn't all that useful in practice if you ever
>>>> needed that there are simpler means to achieve it. An old method is the
>>>> "Q-multiplier". In essence the resonance circuit sits inside an
>>>> amplifier stage that is deliberately pulled very close to oscillation.
>>>> That shrinks the bandwidth big time.
>>>
>>> How do you accomplish that without an amplifier?  You did notice the
>>> site is all about *crystal* radios, right?
>>>
>>
>> You need an amplifier for that. If you want to you can make an
>> energy-harvesting one, sans battery. I mentioned this method purely as a
>> hint, in case anyone ever needs high Q without making fancy large coils
>> and babying them.
>
> What energy will be harvested?
>

The energy present in the environment, for example energy from the local 
radio transmitters. You can then use that to demodulate the signals of 
others.

http://mwrf.com/systems/harvesting-energy-rf-sources

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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Thread

Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core?  "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-14 20:18 -0800
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-03-14 22:21 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-14 23:43 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-15 12:27 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:19 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-15 18:51 -0800
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 20:08 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:24 -0400
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 22:17 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-16 13:04 -0500
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 02:48 -0400
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-03-15 06:35 -0700
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-15 12:46 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:22 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Mike Perkins <spam@spam.com> - 2017-03-30 01:42 +0100
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 18:20 -0700
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-16 08:44 +0200
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:17 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-17 00:58 +0200
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:19 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-15 13:01 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:39 -0400
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:33 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core?  "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net> - 2017-03-15 09:40 -0500
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:26 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-15 08:25 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-03-15 12:38 -0500
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 17:28 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-15 17:59 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 18:10 -0700
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 08:20 -0700
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-16 09:45 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 10:26 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 15:47 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-16 17:15 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 17:36 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-16 18:46 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 23:45 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 07:30 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 08:28 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-17 11:38 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 12:21 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-17 13:08 -0800
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-18 10:32 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 17:10 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 22:31 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 14:53 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 20:38 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-03-18 18:10 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 18:39 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-03-19 09:53 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-19 12:27 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-18 22:11 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-19 10:41 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 17:13 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 17:28 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-18 12:21 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Allan Herriman <allanherriman@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-18 12:15 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 17:36 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 18:09 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 18:21 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-18 10:49 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-18 08:30 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? mkolber1@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 12:49 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-18 12:57 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-18 23:48 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-18 20:08 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? kevin93 <kevin@whitedigs.com> - 2017-03-18 13:09 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-18 04:08 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-19 12:32 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-19 10:45 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-20 11:08 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-19 22:31 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-20 16:31 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-21 01:19 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-22 19:15 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-18 10:41 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 14:47 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-19 00:22 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-19 12:39 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-18 19:11 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-19 13:15 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-20 04:26 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-21 13:17 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-21 01:32 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-21 10:38 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-21 02:53 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-21 01:01 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-21 12:33 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-21 09:42 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 19:05 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-21 12:49 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 18:39 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-21 22:39 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-21 12:30 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-19 17:43 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-21 14:39 +0200
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-21 09:46 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 17:31 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 17:46 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-17 18:18 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-21 09:55 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 07:27 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? DemonicTubes <tlackie@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 09:11 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-17 11:40 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-17 12:29 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-17 12:25 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-03-18 16:20 -0400
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 15:41 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 16:14 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:25 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-19 11:22 -0500
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-15 21:20 -0500
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-15 23:02 -0500
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 22:52 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 02:48 -0400
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:10 -0700
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-16 08:21 -0500
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:10 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Bill Beaty <billb@eskimo.com> - 2017-03-16 12:12 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 13:06 -0700
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-16 15:39 -0500
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-16 19:57 -0700
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-18 21:26 -0500
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 09:44 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-17 17:35 -0700
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-17 18:35 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 09:01 -0700
  Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-19 08:20 -0500
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-19 15:31 -0800
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 19:42 -0400
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-19 19:20 -0500
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 17:49 -0700
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-19 20:19 -0500
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-19 19:44 -0800
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 00:00 -0400
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-19 23:56 -0400
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 08:36 -0500
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 09:29 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 12:54 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 13:16 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 12:31 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 16:46 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:17 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 18:25 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:15 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 18:25 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:56 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-20 18:49 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 00:19 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 07:27 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 07:28 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 11:24 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 13:39 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-23 13:52 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-23 16:48 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-23 23:58 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 01:13 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 07:00 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 12:47 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 15:13 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 17:05 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 08:44 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 09:13 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-24 09:40 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 13:08 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-24 13:42 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-24 14:20 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-24 22:46 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-24 22:13 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 09:29 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 11:33 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 15:20 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 15:25 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 19:17 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 17:02 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 21:25 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 20:10 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 21:32 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 22:42 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 00:00 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-26 04:00 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 05:36 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-26 09:34 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-26 10:23 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 13:10 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-27 09:32 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 14:44 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 16:34 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 16:12 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 17:44 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 17:08 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 16:00 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 18:27 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 19:31 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-25 21:21 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 23:42 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-25 17:34 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 16:34 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:21 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 18:27 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 17:54 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 20:55 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 20:09 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 21:28 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 21:23 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 23:25 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 07:54 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 07:57 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 11:54 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-21 12:21 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-21 21:40 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 13:27 -0400
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "billbowden" <bperryb@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> - 2017-03-20 15:41 -0800
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-20 19:13 -0500
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 21:18 -0400
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-03-21 04:35 -0500
    Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-20 11:06 +0200
      Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-24 10:14 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 13:59 -0400
          Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-24 13:36 -0700
            Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 13:49 -0400
              Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-25 12:30 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 21:39 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-26 07:35 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-26 13:15 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-27 07:46 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 10:59 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-27 09:22 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 23:47 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 18:15 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 03:42 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 19:07 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 04:35 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 21:58 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 09:42 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-28 12:51 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-28 07:23 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 13:28 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-30 00:37 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 21:02 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 09:57 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-28 09:05 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 11:27 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 13:29 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-27 14:57 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-27 07:25 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-27 09:47 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-27 19:51 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-27 12:21 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 18:54 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 10:16 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-27 16:58 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 23:33 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 18:18 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 03:48 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-28 07:28 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-28 13:41 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-28 07:44 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-27 21:18 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-28 18:22 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 04:01 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-28 11:04 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 10:58 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-28 11:13 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-28 10:12 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 13:47 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-29 14:18 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-30 00:47 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-29 19:15 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 21:40 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 14:26 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 23:47 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 10:18 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-29 19:12 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 11:49 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-03-29 18:21 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 14:19 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2017-03-29 18:01 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Ralph Barone <ralph@invalid.com> - 2017-03-30 02:35 +0000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-29 14:23 +1100
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 23:46 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-03-30 21:40 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-31 20:08 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-02 12:59 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 23:55 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-02 14:36 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 01:56 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-02 18:11 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-04-02 07:35 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? mkolber1@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 06:16 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-03 07:40 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-04-02 08:12 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-04-03 08:47 +1000
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-04-02 18:39 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-04-02 21:22 -0500
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-04-03 14:12 -0700
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 23:25 -0400
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-03-28 12:58 +0300
                Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-03-27 07:52 -0700
        Re: Antenna ferrite loopsticks verses air core? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-03-24 21:35 +0200

csiph-web