Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This

From	ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written
Subject	Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This
Date	2016-12-13 04:01 +0000
Organization	loft
Message-ID	<eb9a57Fhmi7U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<109cfe5e-4e59-4d90-a390-7c3f0c12e46f@googlegroups.com> <oI1xsM.E99@kithrup.com> <o2nc1q013t7@news3.newsguy.com> <MPG.32b937a2e9eebf0c98a7be@news.eternal-september.org>

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In article <MPG.32b937a2e9eebf0c98a7be@news.eternal-september.org>,
J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article <o2nc1q013t7@news3.newsguy.com>, 
>a425couple@hotmail.com says...
>> 
>> "Dorothy J Heydt" <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote in message...
>> > Robert Bannister  <robban@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>> >> Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> >>>  Quadibloc  wrote:
>> >>>> was inspired by the science-fiction movie Arrival, which, according
>> >>to a review of it that I read, is a good and serious science-fiction
>> >>movie, something we need more of.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Anyways, though, the article raised a question to which I think I
>> >>have an answer.
>> >>>> In a lot of science fiction, aliens end up looking exactly like
>> >>humans - or like humans with a few trivial differences.
>> >>>> What is the next step up from that?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Imagining what an intelligent life form that evolved completely
>> >>independently from us is *hard*.
>> 
>> Yes.  Hard. 
>> 
>> >>>> So what is the obvious shortcut to take?
>> >>>> Well, if we don't assume that all the steps evolution took in getting
>> >>to *us* will be exactly repeated on another world... but we're not up to
>> >>re-imagining a whole new development of life from the beginning...
>> >>>> why not imagine that only a *few* of those steps are repeated?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So we get lizard aliens - they're very common.
>> >>>> Maybe starfish aliens! Or octopus aliens, as noted in the article I
>> >>referenced above.
>> >>>
>> >>> ---A heavy brain may not be a complex brain.  Conversely,
>> >>> there are move very clever birds - and others that
>> >>> don't seem to learn how to use one leg and then the
>> >>> other (admittedly not their main thing), so they hop.
>> >>> One idea is that you need a complex brain to be a
>> >>> tool user.  Then you also need a way to manipulate
>> >>> tools - the word refers to hands, but tentacles
>> >>> are another possibility.  Or the mouths.  These
>> >>> features are to be expected.
>> >>
>> >>And yet, a number of birds use tools and some of the corvidae are 
>> >>capable of carrying out a number of complex tasks like raising water 
>> >>levels to catch a floating worm by dropping stones in.
>> > 
>> > And corvidae are smart, as birds go.  Another smart variety of
>> > birds are parrots.  
>> 
>> It is probably a lack of imagination on my part, but I am 
>> having trouble envisioning a starfish alien, or a octopus alien, 
>> or a bird alien mining metal ore, smelting it, and pounding 
>> it between hammer and anvil  to purify it. 
>> And written records would seem slower with them. 
>
>Consider that "bird" covers a lot of territory.  
>Allosaurus was, for certain values, a bird.  I 
>don't think that anything built along those 
>lines is going to have much trouble swinging a 
>hammer.
>
>As for molluscs, I suspect that a half-ton squid 
>or 600 pound octopus would have little trouble 
>out-hammering a human.  And they make their own 
>ink.
>
>Starfish are another story--they don't have a 
>central nervous system and do not appear to be 
>particularly bright.
>

Puny Earth creature!  How dare you speak thus of Starro The Conqueror!
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Thread

Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-10 11:57 -0800
  Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-10 20:37 +0000
    Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-10 14:08 -0800
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-10 18:04 -0600
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-12-11 00:18 -0800
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-12 09:27 -0800
  Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-11 08:01 -0800
    Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-11 22:41 +0000
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-11 18:36 -0800
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-12 03:02 +0000
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-12 04:38 -0700
    Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-12-12 09:59 +0800
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-12 03:02 +0000
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-12 15:31 -0800
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-12 16:00 -0800
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:40 -0500
            Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-12-13 04:01 +0000
              Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-13 06:55 -0600
            Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-13 04:02 +0000
              Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-13 08:13 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-13 16:26 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-13 12:06 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-13 21:21 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 21:53 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-13 22:29 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-14 15:07 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-14 04:10 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 07:09 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-14 07:27 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-14 15:50 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-12-15 01:18 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-15 16:42 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-12-16 05:48 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-17 06:47 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-17 18:58 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-17 16:16 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 19:25 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-17 18:38 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-19 23:11 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-20 13:45 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-20 13:45 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-21 00:12 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-20 21:44 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-12-20 23:10 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-21 14:37 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-25 08:22 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-25 10:18 -0500
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-26 20:43 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-21 13:17 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-12-20 15:11 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-14 00:33 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-12-14 09:37 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Paul Arthur <junk+usenet@flowerysong.com> - 2016-12-14 18:49 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-15 01:36 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 06:00 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-15 13:36 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-12-15 10:09 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Anthony Frost <Vulch@vulch.org> - 2016-12-14 08:04 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-12-14 09:51 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 10:40 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-14 13:46 -0500
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-12-14 18:57 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 11:43 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-15 01:34 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-14 15:09 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 15:00 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-14 17:37 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-14 07:23 -0500
              Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-24 14:09 -0500
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-24 15:05 -0600
            Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-13 09:48 -0800
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-13 03:18 +0000
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-24 14:07 -0500
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 22:54 -0600
  Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This synthius2002@yahoo.com - 2016-12-18 14:07 -0800
    Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-12-19 08:12 -0800
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This synthius2002@yahoo.com - 2016-12-20 18:39 -0800
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-20 22:05 -0800
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-20 22:22 -0800
            Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-20 23:03 -0800
              Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This SteveGG <casagiannoni@optonline.net> - 2016-12-21 14:05 -0500
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-21 22:25 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 18:03 -0500
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 15:37 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-25 08:25 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-21 18:33 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-12-21 21:58 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-21 19:06 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-21 20:37 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-21 14:43 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-21 19:05 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-12-21 20:56 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-21 20:01 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-21 20:41 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-12-21 22:55 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-21 22:01 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-12-21 23:17 -0700
                Re: We're robots, programmed by Nature to play "The Stay Alive Game". Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-24 08:17 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:06 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:05 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-12-21 22:45 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-21 21:47 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-12-21 23:05 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-22 06:13 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-22 08:42 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:09 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-22 09:15 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:32 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-22 09:37 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 10:25 -0700
                Gutless whining (was Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-22 10:29 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-22 09:36 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:07 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:07 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:05 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:05 -0700
                Gutless whining Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2016-12-22 09:12 -0800
                Re: Gutless whining Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:32 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-22 09:20 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 09:33 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-22 13:43 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-22 14:04 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-21 18:29 -0800
              Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-22 23:08 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-23 09:37 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-23 20:35 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-23 20:59 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-24 10:28 -0800
            Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This SteveGG <casagiannoni@optonline.net> - 2016-12-24 07:57 -0500
              Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-24 14:46 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com> - 2016-12-25 15:43 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-26 03:45 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-26 22:22 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 13:44 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-28 15:35 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-30 14:49 -0800
  Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This synthius2002@yahoo.com - 2016-12-25 16:23 -0800
    Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-26 10:56 -0500

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