Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This

From	Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com>
Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written
Subject	Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This
Date	2016-12-12 09:59 +0800
Message-ID	<eb6ejbFr9njU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<109cfe5e-4e59-4d90-a390-7c3f0c12e46f@googlegroups.com> <3616460a-d704-4b49-85c7-cd1b7b025dfc@googlegroups.com>

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On 12/12/16 12:01 am, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 10 December 2016 19:58:01 UTC, Quadibloc  wrote:
>> This article
>>
>> http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/54262/20161210/scientific-reasons-why-people-convinced-octopuses-exact-description-aliens.htm
>>
>> was inspired by the science-fiction movie Arrival, which, according to a review of it that I read, is a good and serious science-fiction movie, something we need more of.
>>
>> Anyways, though, the article raised a question to which I think I have an answer.
>>
>> In a lot of science fiction, aliens end up looking exactly like humans - or like humans with a few trivial differences.
>>
>> What is the next step up from that?
>>
>> Imagining what an intelligent life form that evolved completely independently from us is *hard*.
>>
>> So what is the obvious shortcut to take?
>>
>> Well, if we don't assume that all the steps evolution took in getting to *us* will be exactly repeated on another world... but we're not up to re-imagining a whole new development of life from the beginning...
>>
>> why not imagine that only a *few* of those steps are repeated?
>>
>> So we get lizard aliens - they're very common.
>>
>> Maybe starfish aliens! Or octopus aliens, as noted in the article I referenced above.
>>
>> John Savard
>
> If we are considering aliens with brains bigger than
> animals seem to need - why do they have them?
>
> It may bē a matter of relative, not absolute size,
> since a large body also seems to require a larger brain;
> nerve cells and muscles in proportion, perhaps.
> A heavy brain may not be a complex brain.  Conversely,
> there are move very clever birds - and others that
> don't seem to learn how to use one leg and then the
> other (admittedly not their main thing), so they hop.
>
> One idea is that you need a complex brain to be a
> tool user.  Then you also need a way to manipulate
> tools - the word refers to hands, but tentacles
> are another possibility.  Or the mouths.  These
> features are to be expected.

And yet, a number of birds use tools and some of the corvidae are 
capable of carrying out a number of complex tasks like raising water 
levels to catch a floating worm by dropping stones in.

<http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(09)01455-9?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209014559%3Fshowall%3Dtrue&cc=y=>

or
http://tinyurl.com/zczqbf3
-- 
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

Thread

Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-10 11:57 -0800
  Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-10 20:37 +0000
    Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-12-10 14:08 -0800
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-10 18:04 -0600
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-12-11 00:18 -0800
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-12 09:27 -0800
  Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-11 08:01 -0800
    Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-11 22:41 +0000
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-11 18:36 -0800
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-12 03:02 +0000
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-12 04:38 -0700
    Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-12-12 09:59 +0800
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-12 03:02 +0000
        Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-12 15:31 -0800
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-12 16:00 -0800
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-12-12 22:40 -0500
            Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-12-13 04:01 +0000
              Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-13 06:55 -0600
            Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-13 04:02 +0000
              Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-13 08:13 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-13 16:26 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-13 12:06 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-13 21:21 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-13 21:53 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-13 22:29 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-14 15:07 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-14 04:10 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-12-14 07:09 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-14 07:27 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-14 15:50 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-12-15 01:18 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-15 16:42 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-12-16 05:48 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-17 06:47 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-17 18:58 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-17 16:16 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 19:25 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-14 00:33 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-12-14 09:37 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Paul Arthur <junk+usenet@flowerysong.com> - 2016-12-14 18:49 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-15 01:36 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com> - 2016-12-15 06:00 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-15 13:36 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-12-15 10:09 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Anthony Frost <Vulch@vulch.org> - 2016-12-14 08:04 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-12-14 09:51 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 10:40 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-14 13:46 -0500
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-12-14 18:57 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Default User <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 11:43 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-15 01:34 +0000
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-12-14 15:09 -0600
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-14 15:00 -0700
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-14 17:37 -0800
                Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-14 07:23 -0500
            Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-13 09:48 -0800
          Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-12-13 03:18 +0000
      Re: Why We Imagine Aliens Look Like This Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-11 22:54 -0600

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