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Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation
Date	2016-04-24 19:13 +1000
Message-ID	<do3h16Fua7pU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<6b22d49e-ad50-4437-98c1-764391760126@googlegroups.com>

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On 24/04/2016 7:00 PM, Thomas wrote:
> I. INTRODUCTION
>
> The invariance of the speed of light in different reference frames
> lies at the heart of the derivation of the Lorentz transformation and
> thus the theory of Special Relativity. The derivation typically
> assumes two given events associated with the propagation of a light
> signal, and then looks for a linear transformation of the space and
> time coordinates of these events that would also correspond to the
> same speed of light c in a different reference frame moving with a
> velocity v relatively to the first. In the following it is shown that
> such a transformation can not exist without violating the speed of
> light postulate applied to an independent measurement of the speed of
> light in the second reference frame.
>
>
> II.	PROOF
>
>
> Version 1
>
> We designate the two reference frames with the indices 1 and 2
> respectively and assume that in each frame we have a separate
> stationary array of light detectors. Let a light signal be emitted by
> a light source at the origin of both reference frames, the light
> source being at rest in frame 1 but moving with velocity v in frame
> 2. Assuming the detectors to be equipped with synchronized clocks and
> the light signal emitted at zero system time in each frame, the
> detector locations and associated detection times are then given by
>
>
> (1)  x1=c*t1 (2)  x2=c*t2
>
> where (2) follows from the speed of light postulate. We have formally
> allowed different time units here, but use of the same numerical
> value for c implies obviously
>
> (3)  x1/x2 =t1/t2 =q
>
> where q is some constant. As the value of q is merely a matter of
> convention, we can therefore, without loss of generality, choose q=1
> and thus set
>
> (4)  t1 =t2 =t
>
> and instead of (1) and (2) we have then
>
> (5)  x1=c*t (6)  x2=c*t
>
> Note that these timings, despite being identical here due to the
> chosen convention, are as such completely independent of each other.
> Frame 2 obtains its data completely independently of the data
> obtained in frame 1. Equations (5) and (6) define the speed of light
> postulate therefore without the need of transforming the frame 1 data
> into frame 2. If we wanted to do the latter in addition, we would
> require that the coordinate transformed location of x1 coincides with
> x2, i.e. using (5) and (6) we would get

There is no such requirement. You've introduced it out of thin air. Your 
proof falls apart here.

Sylvia.

Thread

The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 02:00 -0700
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-24 19:13 +1000
    Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 05:08 -0700
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-25 12:58 +1000
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-04-24 11:54 +0200
    Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-24 20:42 +1000
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-04-24 13:28 +0200
        Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-24 11:48 -0700
          Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation HGW <hw@...> - 2016-04-25 07:23 +1000
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-04-24 09:48 -0500
    Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 08:18 -0700
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-04-24 18:50 -0500
        Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:40 -0700
          Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-25 13:45 -0700
          Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 16:35 -0500
            Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:34 -0700
              Imbecile Thomas Smid perseveres "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-26 11:31 -0700
          Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-04-25 17:55 -0400
            Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 10:30 -0700
              Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 16:18 +0200
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 13:39 -0700
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 15:55 -0500
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 13:38 -0700
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 10:15 -0500
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 13:13 -0700
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 15:46 -0500
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 14:25 -0700
                Cretin Thomas Smid persists "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-05-02 14:27 -0700
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 07:37 +0200
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2016-04-28 09:36 -0700
                Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-28 09:48 -0700
                Imbecile Thomas Smid perseveres "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-27 22:51 -0700
          Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 01:48 -0700
    Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Larry Harson <johnmcandrew66@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 12:52 -0700
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-04-24 22:39 +0200
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-04-24 18:45 -0500
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:32 -0700
        Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-04-25 13:46 -0700
          Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 13:59 -0700
            Thomas Smid, autistic imbecile "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-25 14:44 -0700
    Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 15:45 -0700
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-03 17:52 -0500
        Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 14:35 -0700
          Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-05-09 17:07 -0700
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 23:06 -0700
        Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 09:50 -0700
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-24 11:49 -0700
  The collected imbecilities of Thomas Smid "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-24 11:51 -0700
    Re: The collected imbecilities of Thomas Smid "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-24 11:55 -0700
    Re: The collected imbecilities of Thomas Smid Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-04-27 10:32 -0500
      Re: The collected imbecilities of Thomas Smid "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-27 09:28 -0700
  Exposing Thomas Smid's imbecilities "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-27 07:49 -0700
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation alsor@interia.pl - 2016-04-27 12:34 -0700
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Larry Harson <johnmcandrew66@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 17:16 -0700
    Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 13:40 -0700
      Cretin Thomas Smid perseveres "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-05-01 17:38 -0700
      Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Larry Harson <johnmcandrew66@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 08:53 -0700
        Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Thomas <thomas.smid@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 13:40 -0700
          Imbecile Thomas Smid perseveres "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-05-04 13:42 -0700
          Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Larry Harson <johnmcandrew66@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 14:59 -0700
  Cretin Thomas Smid is proven wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-28 08:57 -0700
  Cretin Thomas Smid proven wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-04-28 09:17 -0700
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Carl Susumu <numbernumber1212@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 16:51 -0700
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Carl Susumu <numbernumber1212@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 16:56 -0700
    Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-02 18:20 -0700
  Re: The Light Speed Postulate and its Interpretation in Derivations of the Lorentz Transformation Carl Susumu <numbernumber1212@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 17:16 -0700

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