Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard?

From	Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard?
References	<4F302611.2000008@verizon.net>
Message-ID	<da1a971a4b69b5430ab8a0537ee45bb4@dizum.com> (permalink)
Date	2012-02-08 18:06 +0100
Organization	mail2news@dizum.com

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James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> wrote:

> Would you expect to be able to tell? Do you have any idea how large
> their expenses are? Do you have any idea how small the number of copies
> they sell of the average standard? 

As far as the C standards, no, I don't. But I have participated in other
standards bodies and I don't know how the sponsoring companies account for
it (I'm not an accountant) but I do know everybody views it as a goodwill
gesture to the community and basically spends what has to be spent on
travel, time away from principal jobs etc. and they figure they make it back
on name recognition and sometimes sales. Basically nobody looks at it as a
way to make money (directly) for the company it is more of a marketing angle
and they just write it off and hope for the best.

>> topic were able to answer either of those questions, either. I think
> it's entirely possible that the total expenses divided by the number of
> copies sold might indeed come close to, or even exceed, $200/copy.

They might but that wasn't really my point. My point is there is intangible
benefit to participating in standards and making them easily available so
they will be adopted after all that is the whole point of standards. If you
publish standards and make them hard to obtain or expensive then sure the
implementors will have to buy them, that's their business expense. But then
people who use the standards and the tools written to them *won't* have
access to the standards. The companies I've worked for are willing to spend
on this and I guess it ends at the standard body or publishing house. I mean
we don't get to sell copies.

> don't have anywhere near enough relevant information to distinguish
> unsubsidized prices from subsidized ones. Do you have enough
> information? If so, could you provide it to us?

It's a fair question but as not-an-accountant all I can say is there is
obviously a cost to this but the companies I worked for viewed it as a cost
of doing business, marketing, and community. They didn't worry about it that
much. Like many other things in business, they don't expect that everything
pays for itself. Sometimes they lose on something but they fund it from a
more profitable line of business. That's the way business has to work unless
you have only one very focused product. They also don't print or distribute
the final document so that may make a difference. As far as my view, the
standard should be 10 or 15 dollars or actual printing or distribution
cost. All the work was already paid for by the committe participants and
sponsor companies and we as far as I know don't ever get anything back from
sale of standards etc. So where is all that money going? I think it's going
to the standards organization to pay for their junkets etc. That's why I
don't like it.

Thread

Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-25 12:53 -0800
  Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-25 12:54 -0800
  Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-01-26 23:53 +0100
  Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? paolo <pc8875@nospam.mail.com.br> - 2012-02-02 20:03 +0000
    Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-02 15:22 -0500
      Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201202.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-02-03 11:35 +0100
        Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-03 08:24 -0500
        Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-03 12:39 -0800
        Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-06 11:14 +0100
          Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-06 06:16 -0500
            Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 12:13 +0000
              Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 10:06 -0500
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 15:51 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 11:05 -0500
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 16:08 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 11:30 -0500
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-06 18:18 +0100
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 13:02 -0500
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 18:20 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2012-02-06 19:38 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 21:41 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2012-02-06 21:56 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-06 22:07 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 22:09 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2012-02-06 22:24 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-06 22:00 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 23:46 +0200
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 19:02 -0500
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-07 11:14 +0000
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-06 12:17 -0600
                Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2012-02-06 12:52 -0800
              Re: Copyright Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-13 03:35 -0800
            Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-06 13:22 +0100
              Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-06 08:18 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-02-06 15:20 +0100
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 10:50 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 16:02 +0000
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-06 19:56 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2012-02-06 20:38 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-02-06 21:44 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2012-02-07 14:22 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-02-07 16:33 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2012-02-07 19:35 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-08 00:27 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2012-02-08 10:01 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-08 14:43 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? "osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2012-02-07 08:48 -0600
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-02-06 21:32 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-06 11:16 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-06 14:35 +0000
            Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201202.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-02-06 15:28 +0100
              Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 10:56 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Anonymous <nobody@remailer.paranoici.org> - 2012-02-06 18:29 +0000
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-06 14:12 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-02-08 18:06 +0100
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-08 15:15 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-09 09:23 +1300
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-13 04:58 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-13 12:19 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-13 12:47 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-02-13 22:01 +0000
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-08 15:04 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-09 06:46 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-13 04:59 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-13 12:50 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-06 11:51 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 19:19 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-07 00:35 +0000
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-02-06 20:31 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-02-07 09:19 +0100
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-13 04:08 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-13 07:16 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201202.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-02-13 17:27 +0100
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-13 12:25 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-02-13 23:52 +0000
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> - 2012-02-13 09:42 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201202.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-02-13 23:33 +0100
          Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-13 03:32 -0800
      Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-04 13:36 +0000
  Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Rich Webb <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> - 2012-02-02 16:27 -0500
    Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-02-03 01:48 +0100
      Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-02-03 11:45 -0500
        Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2012-02-03 09:27 -0800
          Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-02-03 15:58 -0500
        Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-02-03 13:06 -0800
          Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-02-04 15:52 -0500
            Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-04 13:58 -0800
              Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-02-05 11:37 +0000
              Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-02-07 10:53 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-07 14:25 -0800
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2012-02-07 23:07 -0500
                Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-02-07 21:07 -0800
            Re: Reasonably priced C11 standard? William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2012-02-06 11:23 -0800

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