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Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse

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Am 05.10.2015 10:40, schrieb K Wills (Shill #3):
> On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 05:48:47 +0200, Thomas Heger<ttt_heg@web.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Am 04.10.2015 11:02, schrieb K Wills (Shill #3):
>> ...
>>>>>         Freud is dead and, contrary to your claim above, is not involved
>>>>> in anything. Let alone anything questionable.
>>>>
>>>> Freud was a pioneer of psychology. It is more like he invented it, than
>>>> he participated.
>>>>
>>>> His personal contribution is called 'psychoanalysis'. That was Freud's
>>>> 'psycho-method'.
>>>>
>>>> Now the question is: what is the intention of this method?
>>>>
>>>
>>>        No, the question is; Why did you claim he is, present tense,
>>> "involved into something at least questionable" when he's dead and
>>> can't be involved in anything?
>>>
>>>> The method is known for extremely long lasting cures of very uncertain
>>>> success.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently 'success' is a relative term and success for Freud was not
>>>> necessarily success for his patients.
>>>>
>>>> But this violates fundamental ethics of medicine, since who is
>>>> practising medicine has to do it for and in service of the patient. This
>>>> means, that only the patient defines, what is good practise in medicine
>>>> (by success in respect to his illness).
>>>
>>>        I'm going to guess a Freudian analysis concluded you're mentally
>>> ill and you harbor resentment about it. Am I right?
>>
>> What would you think, why Freud tries to analyse the mind (instead of
>> curing the personality)?
>>
>
>       One can't be treated, or cured, until the ailment is known.


Psychoanalysis is not based on the analysis of the staus quo, but tries 
to find early trauma and analyse that.

'Ailment' refers to the current situation. In case of mental problems we 
would expect, the doctor examines the patient and ask him about his 
problems.

But Freud regarded the analysis as a cure.

In my eyes this is way to backward oriented.

Instead it is useful to enhance the patients life in general, what would 
have positive effects on the mind, too.

So a patient should try to eliminate harmful habits, to become less 
self-destructive. Also bad influences from the environment should be 
reduced.

Positive feedback, that stems from physical exercises, useful work, 
better food or even cleaner clothes could be a means to stabilise and 
enhance the mental functions.

The analysis of early trauma may actually do more harm then benefit (my 
opinion). But since I'm not a psychologist I don't really know, what 
method is actually the best.


>> He held the (bogus) assumption, that eliminating the cause would
>> eliminate its effect.
>>
>
>       Um, if the cause is eliminated, any effects from that cause would
> also be eliminated.

Only if the cause is removed before the accident occurs. Later removal 
has no effect.

>> Only: this is not true, since the cause existed once in time and the
>> effects occurred from this cause and are then there (independent of its
>> cause).
>>
>
>       Any effect must have a cause.


This is a very theoretical statement. To some degree it is true,  but 
there are also effects that (seemingly) have no cause.

Most events has also a multitude of causes.

In fact it is a question of a definition, what we call 'event'.

If we have something very unpleasant, like a mortal accident, than we 
like to call this an event and search for its cause.

But if this accident did not occur we have almost the same stream of 
things happening, but not this event. Instead we have others.

The accident is only an event, because it is a spike of unwanted-ness 
and it's unique.

And it does not have a single cause, but is embedded in an array of 
adjacent events and caused by a multitude of influences.

And certain of these influences have no identifialble other causes and 
seem to come out of nowhere.

>> E.g. you cut your finger with a knife. Than the injury remains, even if
>> you throw away the knife.
>>
>
>       And the injury heals.

The injuries are independent of their causes, once they are there. So 
eliminating causes afterwards has no effect.

>> So finding the reason for some kind of early trauma might be necessary
>> for a successful cure, but is not the cure.
>
>       Nor does Freudian psychology claim it is. It can, however, lead
> to a means to the cure.

Freud used certain techniques of subconscious manipulation.

This is e.g.  the sofa and the rug, the position of the psychoanalyst 
(invisible behind the patient).

This is way too much 'Voodoo' for my taste.

The method is more like brainwashing, rather than it seems to attempt to 
help the patient.

Fitting is also its extremely long duration and its concentration on 
random subjects, people eventually like to keep a secret.

The name 'analysis' also fits into such a questionable picture and also, 
that this method is applied to people, who are not sick.


TH

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Thread

Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-27 09:47 +0200
  Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 05:36 -0500
    Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-27 20:55 +0200
      Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 15:59 -0500
        Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-28 05:56 +0200
          Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 03:35 -0500
            Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-29 02:35 +0200
              Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 04:43 -0500
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-30 04:06 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-30 04:24 -0500
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-30 20:58 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-01 07:51 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 04:46 -0500
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-03 06:56 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 03:48 -0500
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-04 04:50 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 04:02 -0500
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-05 05:48 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 03:40 -0500
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-06 05:24 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 04:44 -0500
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-11 00:22 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-11 04:13 -0500
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-12 06:11 +0200
                Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 04:14 -0500

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