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Re: pedagogy

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"Ben Bacarisse" wrote:

> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> "Bartc" wrote:
> <snip>
>>> (No, I don't have alternative suggestions, except that a language that 
>>> can
>>> used to code almost directly from an algorithm is worth looking at. 
>>> Maybe
>>> someone should just implement pseudo-code.)
>>
>> The first question that must be answered is: "Is the student willing to
>> learn a 'throw-away' language?  That is, one that one learns simply get
>> started, and then never uses again?
>
> That's a good question.
>
>> If so, that language is Pascal. I sort
>> of learned Lisp many, many years ago.  Nothing.  When I got my Atari ST, 
>> the
>> big thing was Logo. I spent hours on it.  Nothing. As far as I can tell
>> Pascal is a pretty good cut at a working form of pseudocode.  One huge
>> advantage over C is that types and variables and initial values are
>> different things and you damn well know it while it is going on. Pascal 
>> also
>> makes very clear the difference between a small integer and a character.
>> Pascal's wordiness may also make you appreciate C more when you learn the
>> two languages in that order.
>
> But Pascal is an odd suggestion, at least for those reasons!  Pascal is
> horrid to work in because it is so restrictive and, in my experience,
> students hate it.  The big plus point (and it should not be ignored) is
> the vast number of good books available that use or are about Pascal.
> And because it a language from another century, many can be picked up
> for pennies.  In fact, I'm about throw about a dozen of them away.

I guess part of the deal was, the student *knows* that he is learning a 
throw away language. I taught Microsoft Basic, Borland Pascal and Fortran 
concurrently in college in the eighties.  I never detected the dislike you 
mentioned. What could a new student possibly have as a basis for comparison? 
I mean, the flaws of English spelling are obvious, even to a child.  But 
Pascal?

I have spent a lot of time looking for the most perfect language but the 
interest has died down now.  The last language I learned is C++ and I find 
it disgusting. Is this a programming language or a huge baroque puzzle? 
ISTM that these revisions are turning it into a parody of a language. 

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pedagogy luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-05-28 22:42 -0700
  Re: pedagogy Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-05-29 00:57 -0500
  Re: pedagogy Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-29 11:10 +0100
    Re: pedagogy raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-05-29 12:42 +0000
      Re: pedagogy David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 10:02 -0700
        Re: pedagogy raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-05-29 18:23 +0000
  Re: pedagogy Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2015-05-29 13:34 +0200
  Re: pedagogy John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 08:17 -0700
    Re: pedagogy rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2015-05-29 08:33 -0700
      Re: pedagogy Etienne Prud'homme <e.e.f.prudhomme@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 12:25 -0400
        Re: pedagogy John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2015-05-29 14:28 -0700
          Re: pedagogy Etienne Prud'homme <e.e.f.prudhomme@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 00:58 -0400
    Re: pedagogy gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-05-29 15:46 +0000
  Re: pedagogy Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-29 22:16 -0500
  Re: pedagogy luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 00:16 -0700
    Re: pedagogy Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-05-30 11:31 +0000
      Re: pedagogy David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-30 07:10 -0700
        Re: pedagogy Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-30 15:38 +0100
          Re: pedagogy "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-05-31 09:43 -0500
            Re: pedagogy Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-31 16:03 +0100
              Re: pedagogy "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-05-31 10:34 -0500
                Re: pedagogy Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-05-31 16:56 +0100
                Re: pedagogy luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 10:28 -0700
              Re: pedagogy Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-31 17:04 +0100
                Re: pedagogy Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-31 12:10 -0500
                Re: pedagogy raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-05 15:21 +0000
          Re: pedagogy David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-31 09:01 -0700
            Re: pedagogy luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 21:51 -0700
              Re: pedagogy David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-03 09:14 -0700
              Re: pedagogy "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-06-04 00:48 -0700
  Re: pedagogy luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 22:12 -0700

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