Re: Questions for John Sefton

Newsgroups	sci.physics
Date	2016-01-21 07:58 -0800
References	<n7m7o9$1knl$1@gioia.aioe.org> <030290f4-81c8-4971-a0e5-01748640aaac@googlegroups.com> <n7o8s8$idu$2@gioia.aioe.org> <7003579e-54a7-4953-b61f-d702f9acda94@googlegroups.com> <n7ooo2$1epm$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID	<bfad4005-5375-40bf-9ea0-830abf8b448b@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Questions for John Sefton
From	jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com>

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Odd wrote..
> First way are the physical laws that govern electric and magnetic fields. Those are Maxwell equations. What they say is that if you make a time-based change >in an electric field over HERE right now, then this will automatically make a spatial difference between the magnetic field over here and the magnetic field >over THERE. And vice versa. So if you look in detail what happens when those two things play together, you get a traveling wave. Covered in all basic >freshman physics books that use calculus.

You seem to want it to make it an offence to ask *how* in physics.  Thats 
a sad state of affairs in my opinion.!

Anyways you didnt explain *how* above. You said that time based
change over there automatically made a change over there...."automatically"?..
What on earth does automatically mean? That sounds like some sort of 
religious conversion.
If I want to describe how water is converted into steam and that powers
a turbine which turns a magnet which rotates a magnetic field which
induces an electric current in a conductor. Do I write a description in a 
educational textbook that says.. water is automatically turned into
electricity.? 

>> You cant have waves > if there is nothing to wave. If you think otherwise tell me. What is maxwells wave > made of. Physically, not mathematically.

>You are wrong if you think waves require material to move back and forth. It's just wrong.

I wasnt suggesting emr in a vacuum was atoms waving back and forth. But to
get a changing magnetic field in a source to induce the same response
In a detector that is spacially seperate from the source through what
is called a vacuum with no intervening atoms.......needs a physical 
mechanical explanation. Maxwell, like QT and SR, use magic, faith etc.
They dont explain the mechanism.
Thats not science.
Personally, I believe that a pure vacuum is made of something that
doesnt come under the heading of mass or baryonic matter. It cant
be detected, but it can hold a N-S magnetic field at any point. And 
it is this one property, that allows a moving magnet here to move
a magnet over there. Because it isnt made of baryonic matter, it
doesnt slow down either emr or atoms. Hence the null result
in MMX.
That not  only describes a mechanism for propagating emr.
It doesnt need an unneccesary electric field or unknown action
at a distance via maxwell. I know youll scoff at this idea. But think
about it. Its not much different from maxwell saying there is an electric
field that cant be described. The difference is that the field I suggest
allows a mechanical description that maxwell cant. 
And that one small change in the usage of field allows one to
explain the BBT. Thats a big saving for one small tweak.

>>So in maxwell the lightwave changes frequency as it propagates through space?

>That's not what the Doppler effect is. Doppler effect is when the source and the observer are in relative motion, and it doesn't have anything to do with how >much distance there is between them. (So it's not like the further the light goes, the more the frequency shifts.) And yes, the Doppler effect is FULLY >predicted in Maxwell's theory.

I didnt mention doppler. You suggested earlier that hubbles observed
redshift was consistent with maxwell, without the need for a BBT.
I was calling you to account for your claims that the observation 
that lights frequency can decay over distance without expansion
of space under a BBT, is still consistent with all of maxwells equations.
Is it? ( I doubt it)

>You've never seen a diagram of the force on a moving charge in a magnetic field? Really?

For starters the concept of moving charges are akin to angels
pulling stars. Charges are magical constructs thst dont exist nor can be 
described mechanically
 But I have seen many. And none show the physical mechanism that
transfers the force. They all use magic. How does the magnet physically
transfer the force to the conductor? Without magic please.

Thread

Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 14:53 -0600
  Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 13:06 -0800
    Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 17:21 -0600
      Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 15:28 -0800
        Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 18:07 -0600
          Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 16:34 -0800
            Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 18:43 -0600
              Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 16:50 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-19 19:50 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 07:07 -0600
        Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 18:09 -0600
          Re: Questions for John Sefton moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-20 03:47 +0000
            Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 20:40 -0800
              Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 07:30 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 05:58 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 11:15 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 16:32 -0600
            Re: Questions for John Sefton "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 22:47 -0800
        Re: Questions for John Sefton Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:11 -0800
          Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 14:06 -0600
    Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 17:56 -0600
  Re: Questions for John Sefton Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-19 20:11 -0800
  Questions for John Sefton jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-01-20 05:41 -0800
    Re: Questions for John Sefton Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 07:52 -0600
    Questions for John Sefton HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 07:03 -0800
    Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 09:24 -0600
      Re: Questions for John Sefton jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-01-20 10:03 -0800
        Re: Questions for John Sefton Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 12:29 -0600
        Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 13:55 -0600
          Re: Questions for John Sefton jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-01-21 07:58 -0800
            Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 10:26 -0600
              Re: Questions for John Sefton jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-01-29 12:26 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 15:02 -0600
      Re: Questions for John Sefton Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 12:50 -0800
        Re: Questions for John Sefton Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 13:15 -0800
          Re: Questions for John Sefton Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 13:44 -0800
    Re: Questions for John Sefton Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-20 10:07 -0600
    Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 09:55 -0800
      Re: Questions for John Sefton Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-20 12:53 -0600
      Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 16:40 -0600
        Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 15:23 -0800
          Re: Questions for John Sefton Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-20 19:22 -0600
            Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 05:38 -0800
              Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 08:41 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 07:01 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 09:18 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 09:26 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 09:01 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 20:37 -0500
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 11:12 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-21 18:00 +0000
                Re: Questions for John Sefton "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 11:49 -0800
              Re: Questions for John Sefton HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 06:55 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 11:52 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 12:29 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 14:46 -0600
              Re: Questions for John Sefton Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-21 10:25 -0600
          Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 08:55 -0600
            Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 12:45 -0800
              Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 14:56 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 14:01 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 16:23 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 15:27 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 17:39 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 16:27 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-21 21:56 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 07:47 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 18:04 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 20:43 -0500
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 07:32 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-22 08:43 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 06:56 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 08:59 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 07:34 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 10:22 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 08:45 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 08:51 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 11:05 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 09:44 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 11:51 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 10:10 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 12:31 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 10:50 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-23 02:17 -0500
                Re: Questions for John Sefton moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-22 19:01 +0000
                Re: Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 12:03 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-23 12:02 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 11:00 -0600
              Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 15:06 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 13:59 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 16:18 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 15:22 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 17:31 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 16:21 -0800
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 07:53 -0600
                Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 16:32 -0600
  Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 13:06 -0600
  Questions for John Sefton john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 17:45 -0800
    Re: Questions for John Sefton Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-22 07:29 -0600

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